ClubberLang
Struggling Artist
think for yourself, question authority
Posts: 288
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Post by ClubberLang on Oct 1, 2005 12:59:39 GMT -5
Unlike the Doors, I can understand why people love Hendrix, but I just don't feel that way. "I don't think Morrison's poetry is very good, i don't think it is bad but i don't think it is that great either. That's not why i love The Doors though. Not every Doors fan likes the Doors because of Jim's lyrics. Some of his lyrics suck(just listen to "Do It"). Some of them are great though, even something as simple as People are Strange. Jim had a vision and the band played it to perfection behind them. Plus they changed their sound on every album. The transformation of the band was incredible. They didn't care that the crowd wanted Light My Fire 2, they did their own thing. Then you have Morrison who would fuck with authority every chance he got. He'd challenge cops on stage, he'd to the line with every show, The Doors were banned from playing certain cities because of the Miami incident, then Jim transforms himsel;f into a bearded alchi who wanted nothing to do with the teeny-bopper kids who were going to his shows. The integrity and the vision him and the band had means more to me than any band i've ever listened to. Plus the music and the albums are all classics in my mind. Maybe VU was better(matter of opinion in my mind), maybe Iggy took it further(he probably did but at the time nobody took it further than Jim), but to me The doors combined all of it wioth better songs better albums and a better legacy" Do you undertand now or do you just not bother reading posts?
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Post by Kensterberg on Oct 1, 2005 13:11:28 GMT -5
Clubber -- I never said I didn't get why you like the Doors. I've never said anything at all about your opinion of the Doors. You came in here and asked why there was so much Door slamming going on. You wanted to know why some of us DON'T like this band. So I told you. I've never said anything personal against you, nor have I criticized you for liking this band. I have said that I don't understand why anyone (in general) would like the Doors, and that's because I simply cannot find anything in their catalog that justifies the standing that they have. But I was never looking for your opinion on the Doors, you were asking for mine.
In the case of the Doors, I think they suck. And I've got tons of reasons why. In the case of Led Zep, I frankly don't think they were very good, but I can understand why others like 'em. And in the case of Hendrix, it's obvious that the man was a guitar genius, but for some reason he just sits on another side of a chasm from me. He could be from Mars and I'd feel the same degree of connection, which is to say none at all.
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ClubberLang
Struggling Artist
think for yourself, question authority
Posts: 288
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Post by ClubberLang on Oct 1, 2005 13:15:40 GMT -5
Clubber -- I never said I didn't get why you like the Doors. I've never said anything at all about your opinion of the Doors. You came in here and asked why there was so much Door slamming going on. You wanted to know why some of us DON'T like this band. So I told you. I've never said anything personal against you, nor have I criticized you for liking this band. I have said that I don't understand why anyone (in general) would like the Doors, and that's because I simply cannot find anything in their catalog that justifies the standing that they have. But I was never looking for your opinion on the Doors, you were asking for mine. In the case of the Doors, I think they suck. And I've got tons of reasons why. In the case of Led Zep, I frankly don't think they were very good, but I can understand why others like 'em. And in the case of Hendrix, it's obvious that the man was a guitar genius, but for some reason he just sits on another side of a chasm from me. He could be from Mars and I'd feel the same degree of connection, which is to say none at all. You said that you fdon't understand why anybody would like the Doors. I explained why i like them. You still don't understand, i explained it again. obviously you have problems understanding things.
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ClubberLang
Struggling Artist
think for yourself, question authority
Posts: 288
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Post by ClubberLang on Oct 1, 2005 13:22:20 GMT -5
and how about this quote from you
And if you want to talk about rock and roll addictions leading to death, Morrison again looks merely like an ordinary drunk (and frankly, not even a very good ordinary drunk) compared to the stories from Seattle (Kurt and Layne,
His addiction wasn't cool or as hard as other people's? Oh, he's just a common alcoholic! What a joke.
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Post by strat-0 on Oct 1, 2005 13:41:02 GMT -5
Door slamming
LOL!
Perfect name for a tribute band: the Windows.
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Post by bowiglou on Oct 1, 2005 19:58:34 GMT -5
Ken, you asked the question earlier (and I know you'll know the answer) re: if Doors fans also like Joy Divison and Vu....well you know, I loved both bands.....I did find 'closer' a bit hard to take when I first bought it years ago (1981?) but then when I bought the New Order debut 'movement' which was very JD-like, I was able to more appreciate the prior release...........
well, the fact is Clubber and I have a strong affinity for the Doors...you did see Ken in a post I made yesterday I don't take the lyrics too seriously, but back then (6th grade to Jr High) I was rather enarmored not only with Jimi's presence (at least up to Soft Parade), vocal timbre, and lyricism......... now, they may look "sophomoric" but in the 60s they were very very differnet from other bands (though I'm sure underground bands such as the Fugs were digging just as deeper....)......
and alas, I just love the music!!.........Touch Me, Hyacinth House, People are Strange, Crystal Ship, Soul Kitchen, Wishful Sinful, Land Ho, etc are fantastically produced and melodically endearing.........
But I will admit, I was smitten with his image....I remember buying the mags back then, such as Crawdaddy and Hulaballo and being rather intrigued with his 'pose'................visually, he was worlds apart from the other 'summer of love' bands.......
that being said, at that time, I was still much more into the Beatles than the Doors!!!!...............
Now as for Hendrix...my friends in HS were HUGE Hendrix fans and would listen to him ad nauseum..I did like a sprinkling of his songs (e.,g Crosstown Traffic, Wind Crys Mary, Voodoo Chile, Red House..and all the songs on ARe You Experienced?) but I will admit, once I got into Bowie and Lou in the early 70s, my adoration for extended-jams a la hendrix and allman brothers markedly dissipated.......................I just seemed to lost all temperance for musical solos longer than .34 minute!!!!!!!
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achn2b
Struggling Artist
Posts: 234
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Post by achn2b on Oct 1, 2005 20:38:46 GMT -5
"YOU CAN NOT PETITION THE LORD............................................WITH PRAYUH!!!!"
ugh. horrible. a buddy of mine found an old copy of one of his books of poetry. horrible, pretentious, sophomoric stuff. the stuff adolescents scribble in their notebooks during study hall. and think is truly profound and life-changing.
i don't think morrison had any integrity or vision. i just think he was a drunken fuckup. clubber, you speak of him as if he just donned the image of the bearded alcoholic, as a stage act, when truly, that was what he really was.
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Post by phil on Oct 1, 2005 20:45:38 GMT -5
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ClubberLang
Struggling Artist
think for yourself, question authority
Posts: 288
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Post by ClubberLang on Oct 1, 2005 21:16:35 GMT -5
"YOU CAN NOT PETITION THE LORD............................................WITH PRAYUH!!!!" ugh. horrible. a buddy of mine found an old copy of one of his books of poetry. horrible, pretentious, sophomoric stuff. the stuff adolescents scribble in their notebooks during study hall. and think is truly profound and life-changing. i don't think morrison had any integrity or vision. i just think he was a drunken fuckup. clubber, you speak of him as if he just donned the image of the bearded alcoholic, as a stage act, when truly, that was what he really was. You guys make it seem as if he popped out of his mom's vagina a full blown alchi. He didn't really get into alcohol unitl after their 2nd album. So what was the "act" before he was an alchi back in 67-68' when he wasn't bearded and drunk on stage? Get your information right before you start spewing your bullshit. And who are you to criticize his poetry? I'd like to see one of your poems. It's not like his lyrics are Chad Kroeger like. Fine, you guys don't like the Doors and think they suck. But when you start spewing lies and stereotypes it can get really annoying and just makes you look ignorant. "Drunken Poet", "Lizard King bullshit", etc... just come up with an original thought please
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Post by strat-0 on Oct 2, 2005 0:05:13 GMT -5
O U charmer, Clubber!
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Post by rockysigman on Oct 2, 2005 4:19:36 GMT -5
Yeah, you know Rocky, I really try to keep most of my comments about bands as positive as I can. I really like and respect Bowiglou, and so I joke around about the Doors but don't usually post much of substance on 'em. My views are pretty well known, so I don't see much point to just hauling 'em out for the hell of it. But Clubber asked what was wrong with 'em ... and I see some of my best lines being appropriated by a young poster from Michigan (you flat-out stole my "there's a difference between being influential and being good" -- good for you!) ... well, I couldn't just sit back and let you have all the fun. And I'd forgotten just how cathartic it can be to write a really nasty critique of something really vile. I guess I should start buying cds by new bands so I can rip into them. Ha, you see, Ken? In the RS Castaways world, I am Iggy Pop and you are Jim Morrison. How does it feel to be shown up by an upstart from Michigan?
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Post by rockysigman on Oct 2, 2005 4:23:41 GMT -5
I'd like to see one of your poems. Well that's awfully unfair. We don't make a living at writing rock lyrics, and yet we're expected to be capable of writing better stuff than someone who did, otherwise it's unfair of us to compare him to other people who also made a living at it. No, I think I'd much rather continue to compare Jim Morrison to other rock lyricists in my criticism of him. Makes more sense than comparing him to just anyone. That being said, some of my better stuff probably is better than a lot of Jim Morrison's crap. Also, I think you probably wouldn't be taking this is personally if you were more aware of the extent that all this criticism that several of us throw out there about the Doors on these boards is only half because we really feel that way, but also half because its an ongoing little thing that people like to give bowiglou shit about. It's kind of a running gag regarding different musical tastes around here. Been going on for a couple years. Not meant to be venomous, just some friendly joshing between people who otherwise actually have very similar taste over one band in which the there is the largest disagreement.
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Post by phil on Oct 2, 2005 6:43:03 GMT -5
Bottom line is... There's no need to get antagonistic about this. There is enough of this feeling on these boards as it is ... (s)punk ! I hate (s)punk ! !
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achn2b
Struggling Artist
Posts: 234
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Post by achn2b on Oct 2, 2005 12:31:37 GMT -5
the "act" was "profound, deep-thinking, literary intellectual" when really, his work was just amateurish and sophomoric. what i meant, and thought i explained well enough, was you wrote": then Jim transforms himsel;f into a bearded alchi who wanted nothing to do with the teeny-bopper kids who were going to his shows. like this was a conscious move on his part, an act of sorts, a stage persona that was really quite different from how he actually was offstage. and you commend him for doing this, as if it's some great artistic accomplishment. when the reality of it all was, is that he was just a drunken, bearded alcoholic, on stage and off. there was nothing artistic or laudable about it. just the sad degeneration of a man into the bottle. also, i don't write poetry, nor would i probably publish it if i did. cause it would probably suck. if only morrison had practiced such self-restraint. come up with an original thought? oh, like "jim morrison, underrated rock genius"? wow, that's real original.
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Post by bowiglou on Oct 4, 2005 17:11:39 GMT -5
yes achn2b, akin to many of the 60s proteges (Joplin, Hendrix, etc.) Morrison's self-obsessed antics did "degenerate' into self-destructive behaviors, that to some extent, led to (a) a deterioration in his onstage performance but (b) except for a couple of misfires on the penultimate Morrison Hotel, still did not detract from the wonderful LA Woman................
I rarely look for philosophical musings from entertainers, though I'll be the first to admit being galvanized to thought when a writer stirs the pot, whether it be Costello, Lou Reed, John Lennon, Howard Devoto, Chrissie Hynde, etc.......and for me, though Morrison's solopsisms (sp?) may seem laughable in the year 2005, circa 1967-1969 there was much to the Doors that was entertaining, enlightening, and intriguing.........yes, in the later days we were more like voyeurs waiting to see when the Lizard King would implode, but even with the final (albeit unintentional) LA Woman I strongly believe Jim Moorison had many years of fruitful songwriting within him....true within a short time thereafter I got into Bowie and Lou Reed, so who knows if I would have discared Jim et al (assuming he was still active) but I do strongly opine that his (and his groups) legacy merits more than a laughable footnote and such predictable descriptors as "sophomoric", "buffoon", "drunkard" "degenerate'..............................at times he may have indeed played all or any combination of those, but to this day when I hear: Soul Kitchen, Hyacinth House, Wishful Sinful, Crystal Ship, People are Strange, Unhappy Girl, LA Woman, Rider on the Storm, etc. I am blissfully reminded of a songwriter that challenged the status quo......
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