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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 5, 2006 18:57:25 GMT -5
Over the past couple of years the term 'rockjism' has become a popular insulted used by i-pod-infested Yupsters (Yuppie + Hipster) to criticize those who listen to Classic Rock (or in some cases even grunge or punk or anything that they percieve to take on an anti-commericialism bent). Thee Yupsters quickly dismiss any music that isnt 'hip', 'fresh', 'whack'--or whatever term is the flavor or the month. And the Yupsters act as if anyone who is interested in the history of Rock music or in anything pre-Michael Jackson thriller is an out of touch Dad Rock yokal. Then when you tell them that it's not just the old stuff that you like, but newer stuff as well (for instance Interpol, Modest Mouse, Strokes, Ween, Arcade Fire) they call you an Rockist (Rock elitist).
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Post by Paul on Jun 6, 2006 9:46:59 GMT -5
^^^^
I hate yuppies, I hate hipsters; these folks don't sound like my kind of people...
Go listen to "Dedicated Follower Of Fashion" by the Kinks; that pretty much sums up my thoughts on this issue....or, go listen to "Think For Yourself" by the Beatles, or best yet, both! What a concept, and most people can't grasp it...think for yourself! You like what you like, fuck what other people think...These folks are nothing but sheep in the herd...
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Post by Kensterberg on Jun 6, 2006 9:53:29 GMT -5
Slate.com just had an interesting piece on this subject. I would've bet money that this was a thread started by Ryo, but I'd have been very wrong!
Anyway ... Well, I'm obviously a dyed in the wool rockist, and proud of it. I'll post more on this later, right now I just don't have the time to get into a lengthy justification of my likes and dislikes. Off to court shortly for a 9:30 hearing ...
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Post by luke on Jun 6, 2006 10:33:23 GMT -5
First time I ever heard this was from Ikshvaku, on these boards. I've never heard it used to describe classic rock fans, only as a term for people who listen to rock but can't stand the radio friendly pop scene. In that sense, I do embrace "rockjism."
I always thought the term for people who listen to only classic rock was "boring", myself.
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Post by rockysigman on Jun 6, 2006 11:10:02 GMT -5
First time I ever heard this was from Ikshvaku, on these boards. I've never heard it used to describe classic rock fans, only as a term for people who listen to rock but can't stand the radio friendly pop scene. In that sense, I do embrace "rockjism." I always thought the term for people who listen to only classic rock was "boring", myself. I was about to mention Ishkvaku too. He was always telling me I was a rockist. I'd never heard it anywhere except from him. pauledwardwagemann, are you an ILX guy? |
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Post by Mary on Jun 6, 2006 11:47:47 GMT -5
Ikshavu used to call me a rockist too and I actually understood the term kind of differently. I thought it was a term of derision for people who thought the whole world of worthwhile music was basically exhausted by bands in the traditional guitar-bass-and-drums mold (with a few minor variations on this). Which means you could be a rockist whether you're totally into classic rock or into the Strokes & company. I never really thought it was about time period, but rather about people who are completely dismissive of rap, hip-hop, electronica, house, and that kind of thing - people who only accept that music is legitimate if it involves guitars and singing. There's a huge racial subtext to the insult - I think it often implies that you're dealing with a narrow-minded white person with no interest in or appreciation for black culture.
But that's just the impression I got from how ikshavu used the term... could be totally wrong here....
Cheers,
M
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Post by luke on Jun 6, 2006 12:00:09 GMT -5
What would bug me about Ikky is that he would completely dismiss stuff like Outkast and The Roots as "rap for white people" and if you didn't appreciate the new Beyonce, you were a "rockist."
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Post by Paul on Jun 6, 2006 12:37:31 GMT -5
Ikshavu used to call me a rockist too and I actually understood the term kind of differently. I thought it was a term of derision for people who thought the whole world of worthwhile music was basically exhausted by bands in the traditional guitar-bass-and-drums mold (with a few minor variations on this). Which means you could be a rockist whether you're totally into classic rock or into the Strokes & company. I never really thought it was about time period, but rather about people who are completely dismissive of rap, hip-hop, electronica, house, and that kind of thing - people who only accept that music is legitimate if it involves guitars and singing. There's a huge racial subtext to the insult - I think it often implies that you're dealing with a narrow-minded white person with no interest in or appreciation for black culture. But that's just the impression I got from how ikshavu used the term... could be totally wrong here.... Cheers, MBut rock n' roll is largely based on black culture, so that argument, at least to me doesn't hold up...Where would rock be without Chuck Berry? Rock also incorporates elements of jazz which is largey black culture. Sadly many people involved w/ rap today have seemed to forget about this...God, I miss A Tribe Called Quest... |
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Post by Paul on Jun 6, 2006 12:38:55 GMT -5
What would bug me about Ikky is that he would completely dismiss stuff like Outkast and The Roots as "rap for white people" and if you didn't appreciate the new Beyonce, you were a "rockist." That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read...How can this Ikky fella praise Beyonce, and claim the Roots are rap for white people? That's about as dumb as it gets folks. |
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Post by Mary on Jun 6, 2006 12:44:19 GMT -5
But rock n' roll is largely based on black culture, so that argument, at least to me doesn't hold up...Where would rock be without Chuck Berry? Rock also incorporates elements of jazz which is largey black culture. Sadly many people involved w/ rap today have seemed to forget about this...God, I miss A Tribe Called Quest... Of course, I'm sure even Ik would agree with the point that rock and roll itself is pretty much an outgrowth of black culture. But I think that his understanding of rockjism is that it's a kind of white co-optation of what was originally black culture, but has now become the preserve of suburban white kids. But really, this isn't my opinion at all so I'm just trying to reconstruct his mindset and could be getting it totally wrong. And yeah, luke, it drove me crazy that anyone who didn't appreciate Aaliyah and Beyonce was instantly tarred a rockist in Ik's mind. It's an interesting way of turning the ultimate conformity into a statement of non-conformity on some intellectual level. All that said, and admitting upfront that my cd collection is probably 95% rock, I think there's something useful in the notion of rockjism, though I'd never accuse luke of being rockist. Only to say it is possible to become very narrow-minded about music by becoming overly entrenched in a traditional rock framework, and to be instantly dismissive of anything which doesn't fit these conventional and tested boundaries. I've definitely been this way myself but now I do make a conscious effort to be open-minded about other forms of music, even though it doesn't always work. But I'm never instantly dismissive of anything anymore. I know some folks who are very into minimalist electronica, something I'd have totally scorned 5 or 6 years ago, but although I can't imagine myself ever hanging out listening to the stuff, I've developed some appeciation for it as a scene, an art form, and even a kind of social movement. And I can totally see its appeal as a kind of ritualistic dance music too. Cheers, M |
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Post by Paul on Jun 6, 2006 12:50:48 GMT -5
But rock n' roll is largely based on black culture, so that argument, at least to me doesn't hold up...Where would rock be without Chuck Berry? Rock also incorporates elements of jazz which is largely black culture. Sadly many people involved w/ rap today have seemed to forget about this...God, I miss A Tribe Called Quest... Of course, I'm sure even Ik would agree with the point that rock and roll itself is pretty much an outgrowth of black culture. But I think that his understanding of rockjism is that it's a kind of white co-optation of what was originally black culture, but has now become the preserve of suburban white kids. But really, this isn't my opinion at all so I'm just trying to reconstruct his mindset and could be getting it totally wrong. Of course, one could make the same argument for hip-hop/rap now a days....I mean go to Any-town USA and see how many teenage white boys are wearing fancy jewelry, jersey's, pimped out cars, and even do-rags for Christ sake...It's pretty amusing to me. I've been a fan of rap since the Beastie Boys and Run-DMC came to a suburb near me, yet I've never pretended to be black. Seems like this Ikky guy need to check his head.... |
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 6, 2006 13:48:49 GMT -5
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Post by rockysigman on Jun 6, 2006 14:07:42 GMT -5
ILX is another internet music forum. I know that is where Ishvaku really picked up on the whole "rockist" thing, so I thought maybe you got into the debate there too.
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Post by luke on Jun 6, 2006 14:18:43 GMT -5
Stylus article really fucking nails it. Funny reading the NYT article right after, and notice how it slips into every trap the Stylus guy laid out.
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Post by rockysigman on Jun 6, 2006 14:53:02 GMT -5
Hey pauledwardwagemann, I see you're another Chicagoan. I think you're #4 here now (including myself, RocDoc and nDy). Welcome aboard.
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