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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 16:12:18 GMT -5
I'd hardly call the Sex Pistols tour something of novelty. It is still talked about to this day around San Antonio as one of the greatest shows "insert person's name here that lives in San Antonio" they have ever seen. The San Francisco show is also talked about non stop from massive publications the likes of Rolling Stone.
Wasn't a huge backlash? What did you call the Glam era of the 80s? Those guys may have listened to punk rock, but they certainly were not too enthralled with the every man personae that punk liked to think of itself as. They were interested in being loved and adored ala Led Zeppelin, not punk. They wanted groupies, drugs, excess and lots of money, which several of the punk bands seemed to get about as well, they just didn't go after that in the beginning.
If you really have read Reynold's books then you would know that there are at least 3 chapters in that book that refer to American post punk bands and their respective cities. I would suggest stop skimming............
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 16:16:00 GMT -5
The Clash brit post punk? Nope. Sorry. Don't see it. They just incorporated some Reggae and Dub influences into their music, which was already a huge part of the punk scene during the original movement. It still is important to punks to have a good knowlegdge of reggae and Dub.
Stop with the new wave or I am going to strangle you with a skinny pink tie.
Um, Paul, The Pistols did get noticed and in a big way. The Sex Pistols were a pretty big hit over here.
I consider Talking Heads punk rock.
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 29, 2006 16:27:12 GMT -5
The three chapters in Simon Reynolds book that refer to what was happening in the US were chapter 9 (about No wave in new York), 10 (Called Art Attack: talking heads, wire, and mission of burma) and chapter 16 (about mutant disco and punk funk in New York) were mainly about New York. Honestly outside of New York and maybe a few east coast scenes no one in the rest of america had ever heard of no wave, mutant disco, punk funk, wire and mission of burma while those things were happening. And no one had heard of the talking heads until 'once in a lifetime'.
That's not to say that all of these thngs didnt have an influence on the things that happened later in the decade, but as far as being a huge impact on the US--its just not true.
And as far as your perspective of the sex pistols, you are looking at it from 20/20 hindsight. No one in AMerica gave a rats ass about them or their US tour at the time.
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 16:32:53 GMT -5
Okay, so all of the Creem back issues that I have and Rolling Stones that I have, The NYT article that I have, all major publications doing big write ups is just crap then? Granted I wasn't alive yet, but jeez, it seemed like a big deal to me. A lot of American bands were influenced by it, not to mention the nuts it took to tour the South like they did.
Guess what, Paul, you have just been busted. You haven't read that Reynold's book at all or you would know of the other chapters that I was referring to. The entire one one on Ohio and the entire one on San Francisco. You're lying and it's obvious. Read the book before you start talking about it. It is a good book and I'm glad that you have been promoting it on here, but you haven't read it yet and until you do, any opinion that you have on it is null and void.
STOP SKIMMING! Do you have learning disabilities?
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 16:39:47 GMT -5
So dude, are you checking your book right now and skimming through the pages to see what I'm talking about?
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 16:44:07 GMT -5
Oh my god dude, you are totally checking right now aren't you?
If the word "Tuxedomoon" is in the first paragraph of the next post you do, you are so strangled with that skinny new wave tie.
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 16:57:10 GMT -5
The three chapters in Simon Reynolds book that refer to what was happening in the US were chapter 9 (about No wave in new York), 10 (Called Art Attack: talking heads, wire, and mission of burma) and chapter 16 (about mutant disco and punk funk in New York) were mainly about New York. Honestly outside of New York and maybe a few east coast scenes no one in the rest of america had ever heard of no wave, mutant disco, punk funk, wire and mission of burma while those things were happening. And no one had heard of the talking heads until 'once in a lifetime'. That's not to say that all of these thngs didnt have an influence on the things that happened later in the decade, but as far as being a huge impact on the US--its just not true. And as far as your perspective of the sex pistols, you are looking at it from 20/20 hindsight. No one in AMerica gave a rats ass about them or their US tour at the time. You are aware that Wire is British, correct? Oh man, crap, you better go skim that chapter again and read just two sentences so that you can show us all what an authority you are on "punk rock". Oh. my. gawd. you. are. so. like. gag. me. with. a. spoon. |
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 29, 2006 16:59:51 GMT -5
Skvor, lets stop this ridiculas game of "gotcha" rockatics shall we? If youve read this thread in its entirety you'll see that I jsut got the book a couple days ago and only about 60 pages into it. Looking up the Ohio scene you were talking about, I see that it starts on page 70--so I'm not even there yet. If Reynolds calls Pere Ubu or Devo punk, then I'll gladly say he's an idiot. The were both Art Rock/New Wave Rock. And if he's says the Talking Heads were punk I'll say he's an idiot as well. Reynolds book is just one man's interpretation. My interpretation is that New Wave Rock comes from an artsy, more intellectual (academcially speaking) background, whereas punk Rock comes from a more destructive (often associated with a street level or junkie) place. I suppose if you meld these two strands of rock together you get something very similar to what Reynolds is calling postpunk. But bands like Devo, pere ube, talking heads were never punk. If you want to say they evolved from american new wave/art rock to postpunk, then I would protest, but only slightly. To be honest I havent yet mad eup mind if such a thing as American Postpunk existed--so far I havent seen enough evidence to support that it has. To me Talking Heads, Devo, etc were Art Rock or New Wave Rock (and yes New Wave Rock is a term people were using in the 70s).
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 17:02:08 GMT -5
Wham were a fucking joke, admittedly. Early Spandau Ballet (first two albums) wasn't stuff you should sneeringly dismiss as "gay" without first hearing it, unless you actually want to display your ignorance. Yes, it's easy to sneeringly pick up on their True/Gold days, but that doesn't see the whole picture. Thompson Twins weren't really my bag. Duran Duran were and are fucking brilliant, frankly. Even music snobs buy into that now, I thought? Culture Club? Meh. But you've picked the worst stuff out selectively. LOL! Duran Duran was fucking brilliant?!? Maybe to a teenage girl or a gay guy or someone who is drunk at a wedding--same goes for spandau ballent...I know, I know, I know, this much is true. Are you slagging off Duran Duran? Probably the biggest band of the 80s? Could you write a song with even half the melodic hooks as these guys do? If so, where can I hear you're stuff because that would be pretty amazing. Also, gay guy? Uh, yeah. This statement further proves why rockists can be a bit homophobic, yes? Do you need some time hugging Elton John at an awards show? It seems to be the right forum for him when he's trying to calm down homophobes. It might do you good. |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 17:07:19 GMT -5
No, Rock music is associated with the roots blues of the South, which you racist ass rockists seem to forget. Getting people to dance and have a good time is hardly what I would call destructive. If you are buying into that whole Nihlistic Nietcsche crap, then you have listented to way too many straight edge hardcore records or Oi records. Joe Strummer was so punk and he was probably had the most soul of any white guy around. You probably don't even listen to Bad Brains because it doesn't have some white rockjism you can relate to.
When you get to the chapter about San Francisco, you will see that there is an American Post Punk, just like with New York's No Wave (which Mary very adeptly pointed out) no matter what the cultural impact was. Seriously, if you are looking at it culturaly, what does it matter? Do you need Popular culture to indentify and reinforce your beliefs? That's pretty messed up if you do.
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 17:08:44 GMT -5
Seriously, READ THE BOOK THOUGH AS TO ME, YOU LOOK LIKE A FOOL RIGHT NOW AND I HAVE PERSONALLY SPOKEN TO MR. T AND HE AIN'T GONNA PITY YOU THIS TIME AROUND.
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 17:20:03 GMT -5
Ok Paul, stop Private Messaging me your responses. I'm not trying to one up you and I understand that you are having fun, but I am also disagreeing with you. Either I am strking a nerve or what. Also, me and any girlfriend that I may or may not have are getting along nicely so it's not like I'm PMSing out on your or anything.
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 29, 2006 17:21:17 GMT -5
When you get to the chapter about San Francisco, you will see that there is an American Post Punk, just like with New York's No Wave (which Mary very adeptly pointed out) no matter what the cultural impact was. Seriously, if you are looking at it culturaly, what does it matter? Do you need Popular culture to indentify and reinforce your beliefs? That's pretty messed up if you do. Just because some British guy says that there is such a thing as American postpunk, that doesnt make it so, Skvorecky. If American post punk existed, then what was it? What were its influences? What influence did American Punk have on it? What bands were considered to be American Postpunk? Why is Postpunk any better of a name for it than Art Rock or New Wave Rock or Hardcore? What proof is there that these bands were so greatly influenced by punk that they would not have existed if Americna punk had not existed? Also, gay guy? Uh, yeah. This statement further proves why rockists can be a bit homophobic, yes? How does that comment prove that Rockists are homophobic? I'm a Rockist and I'm certianly not homophobic (in fact I've had sex with lesbian midgets). |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 17:24:02 GMT -5
American Post Punk:
Tuxedomoon
Teenage Jesus and The Jerks
DNA
The Residents
Negativeland
Marrs
I really could go on..........
Butthole Surfers
early Fugazi
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 17:29:59 GMT -5
Art Rock was usually made by guys that went to art school and were really pretentious. Which is why people make fun of Genesis, Eno, Rick Wakeman, etc etc.....however I do like all three of those artists.
Punk started out against art rock and it's pretentions. It was about working class people, which is one of the reasons why Wire, being in their early 30s and art students, were seriously looked down upon in the punk community.
New Wave = The Knack. A very nice way to put some punk rock posers in skinny ties and tell mommy and daddy that it's the punk that is okay to like.
Hardcore is: Blackflag, Dead Kennedys, Gorilla Biscuits, Agnostic Front, SSD, Bad Brains and an American thing that started out with that roided up Frat goon that was the "f##k yeah" guy in the 7-11 parking lot that was into being a he-man woman hater, playing fast music, and beating the crap out of small girls and kids in "the pit".
I can answer your question as well: PIL was the definitive of "post-punk" and since the Pistols were so unimportant (according to you) then why did PIL receive such a warm welcome for three appearances on "American Bandstand"? PIL would not have happened had Lydon not done the Sex Pistols sorry.
Punk gave people the freedom to be weird. Post-punk really grabbed onto that especially when they wanted to take things further than punk.
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