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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 29, 2006 17:31:04 GMT -5
American Post Punk: Tuxedomoon Teenage Jesus and The Jerks DNA The Residents Negativeland Marrs I really could go on.......... Butthole Surfers early Fugazi That's a fine start, but that doesnt answer the question of why. Why do you catagorize them as American Post Punk? What is it about Americn Punk that makes these bands Post punk? What were the influences? Why is Postpunk any better of a name for it than Art Rock or New Wave Rock or Hardcore or College Rock Radio? What proof is there that these bands were so greatly influenced by punk that they would not have existed if Americna punk had not existed? Doesnt there have to be some unifying theme that makes all of these bands fall under that unbreall and that seperates them from any other category? So that's what I'm asking--what is that unifying theme??? |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 17:31:09 GMT -5
How does that comment prove that Rockists are homophobic? I'm a Rockist and I'm certianly not homophobic (in fact I've had sex with lesbian midgets). "
Another typical patriarchial statement by a homophobic "straight male". Watching lesbians do it does not absolve you from being a homophobe.
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 29, 2006 17:32:56 GMT -5
" How does that comment prove that Rockists are homophobic? I'm a Rockist and I'm certianly not homophobic (in fact I've had sex with lesbian midgets).Another typical patriarchial statement by a homophobic "straight male". Watching lesbians do it does not absolve you from being a homophobe. Oh I was doing more than just watching, my amigo...much more than just watching... |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 17:33:10 GMT -5
American Post Punk: Tuxedomoon Teenage Jesus and The Jerks DNA The Residents Negativeland Marrs I really could go on.......... Butthole Surfers early Fugazi That's a fine start, but that doesnt answer the question of why. Why do you catagorize them as American Post Punk? What is it Americn Punk that makes these bands Post punk What were the influences? Why is Postpunk any better of a name for it than Art Rock or New Wave Rock or Hardcore or College Rock Radio? What proof is there that these bands were so greatly influenced by punk that they would not have existed if Americna punk had not existed? Doesnt there have to be some unifying theme that makes all of these bands fall under that unbreall and that seperates them from any other category? So that's what I'm asking--what is that unifying theme??? Because post punk = after punk. Are you retarded? That music would not have happened if it hadn't been for punk REGARDLESS OF PUNKS SO CALLED INFLUENCE ON AMERICAN MUSIC. College Radio Rock is too wide a scope of to call it that in my opinion. College Radios have been playing multiple genres since it's inception. |
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 29, 2006 17:34:33 GMT -5
Because post punk = after punk. Are you retarded? So Celine Dion is PostPunk then? Becasue she came after punk and according to your well-thought out definition of Postpunk, that makes her post punk, right? And how about Kelly Clarkson? Obviously post punk, right? Look, there has to be some more specific unifyng theme than simple chronology. |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 17:34:40 GMT -5
How does that comment prove that Rockists are homophobic? I'm a Rockist and I'm certianly not homophobic (in fact I've had sex with lesbian midgets). " Another typical patriarchial statement by a homophobic "straight male". Watching lesbians do it does not absolve you from being a homophobe. Oh I was doing more than just watching, my amigo...much more than just watching... Again, you're not understanding this at all. You are still a sexist pig and further proving that you are a liar. Talking up ones libido is a sure sign of insecurities. Also, have you "done more" with guys or are you comfortable with your friends who are guys "who have done more" with other guys? |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 17:36:03 GMT -5
Because post punk = after punk. Are you retarded? So Celine Dion is PostPunk then? Seriously, no one is stating that just because it was after punk, that everything is included. It means that punk music is included in the stew of the band's sound, which obviously wouldn't be there if punk hadn't happened. You know that, again, stop playing dumb. |
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 29, 2006 17:39:24 GMT -5
So Celine Dion is PostPunk then? Seriously, no one is stating that just because it was after punk, that everything is included. It means that punk music is included in the stew of the band's sound, which obviously wouldn't be there if punk hadn't happened. You know that, again, stop playing dumb. I aske you to give me specifics that defined postpunk and the only one you could give was that it came after punk. So that makes Britney Spears post punk according to your definition. If you are going to convince me that American Postpunk is a specific catagory fo Rock, you are gonna have to be more specific than that. |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 17:48:57 GMT -5
Paul, I can do no more with you. You are officially learning impaired. If you would read that post that you quoted instead of skimming like you have with the Reynolds book then you would have the answer that you want. Last chance to stop dividing air molecules and learn some reading comprehension.
1. Tuxedomoon was a post punk band from San Francisco. They saw the Dead Kennedys, who were a punk band and fell in love with it. They decided to play in punk bands too but they just didn't want to be confined to just being punk. They bought keyboards, brought in other influences AS WELL AS PUNK MUSIC FROM THEIR PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE AS BEING IN A PUNK BAND and you have a recipe for post-punk.
At this moment, I find post-punk as Britney Spears far cooler.........
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 29, 2006 20:03:05 GMT -5
Paul, I can do no more with you. You are officially learning impaired. If you would read that post that you quoted instead of skimming like you have with the Reynolds book then you would have the answer that you want. Last chance to stop dividing air molecules and learn some reading comprehension. 1. Tuxedomoon was a post punk band from San Francisco. They saw the Dead Kennedys, who were a punk band and fell in love with it. They decided to play in punk bands too but they just didn't want to be confined to just being punk. They bought keyboards, brought in other influences AS WELL AS PUNK MUSIC FROM THEIR PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE AS BEING IN A PUNK BAND and you have a recipe for post-punk. So according to you, any band that has seen a punk band and is influenced by it is Postpunk. So by that definition, it would follow that any band who has seen a Prog Rock band and was influenced by it should from then on be labeled as a PostProg band??? Or maybe any band who sees a Polka group and then goes out and buys an accordian should be called PostPolka? Your defintion is still just too broad and arbitrary. Guns-n-Roses saw punk bands in LA--they even made a album of punk covers. So according to you Guns-n-Roses is PostPunk??? I'm not buying it Skvoricky. There has to be something more specific than your arbitraty criteria that you are so desperately trying to define it with... |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 23:19:26 GMT -5
Uh, I think you have mental retardation. Spell my name right. Slow down and make your posts clear. Read the book BEFORE you start posting about it and making blanket generalized statements. This is not a contest, though it might be a good contest to start with yourself on how many books on the subject you can read and hopefully retain the information. I am not nor have I ever claimed to be an authority on the subject. I am not an ordained musicologist nor do I claim to be.
Let me clear a couple of things up for you and I will try to talk slow for you so you can understand:
1. Not every band who has seen a punk band is post-punk. That is ridiculous.
2. The big deal with Post-Punk was that it was A) apolitical for the most part unlike Punk.
B) It usually incorporated things like Reggae, Disco, Krautrock, Dub, and Punk.
C) At the time, they called it post punk because most of the members of the movement were famous former punk rock band members who carried over the roots of that movement sonically and incorporated it with other things. The reason for this is that the press didn't really have a term for this music and they needed one to explain the music in articles. The reason for this is that most of those Punk bands had broken up by then.
D) Guns N Roses and Punk Covers should never be uttered in the same sentence again. That had to have been the worst thing ever and they are far from what I would consider punk.
3. Read the book.
4. Read the book.
5. Take a deep breath, it's all going to be okay.
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 23:46:54 GMT -5
God grant me the serenity for things I can not change...............
What am I doing?!? I'm enjoying the debate, but I'm wondering if it's worth it!
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 30, 2006 11:04:19 GMT -5
According to Reynolds, Postpunk was not apolitical. I thought you said you read the book Skvoreaky? He spends large portions of the booke detailing how it was a reaction to the Riht WIng Thatcher/Reagan conservativism that had taken control of western civilization...
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Post by Thorngrub on Jun 30, 2006 11:48:10 GMT -5
*been waitin' for skvor to discover this thread*
Now you see why I haven't bothered posting here really...
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 30, 2006 12:49:50 GMT -5
Whether or not Reynolds will ultimately fill in the holes in his investigation of Postpunk or not, his approach is pretty easy to follow and he is at times a fairly good writer.
Here's an excerpt from the chapter where he investigates two decaying industrial wastelands on the Cuyahoga river; Akron, known for providing rubber to Detroit auto makers where Devo gained some notoriaty, and Cleveland, known for providing Detroit with steel and where pere ubu came from. Both of these cities had fallen upon hard times in the late 70s due to competition from japanese auto makers:
"There's something special about cities that were once prosperous. The residues of wealth and pride make a rich loam in which bohemia can grow. Former affluence bequeths a meterial legacy in the form of handsomely endowed colleges, art schools, museums, and galleries. Artists and slackers live cheaply in once grand houses that have gown shabby and low-rent, while derelict warehouses and empty factories can be easily repurposed as rehearsal or performances spaces. A husk from Cleveland's heyday provided Ubu with their first regular opportunity to play live. A scuzzy biker bar known as the Pirate's Cove occupied what had once been John D. Rockefeller's first warehouse. Pirate's Cove was in the heavily industrialized riverside zone known as the Flats, an area that Ubu waxed lyrical about in their first interviews, describing ore-loaded barges floating down the Cuyahoga, steel foundries pounding nonstop night and day, and glare from blast furnaces bruising the night in hues of green and purple, and belching smokestacks and lattices of piping silhoetted against the sky. 'We thought it was magnificent...like going to an art museaum or something,' singer David Thomas recollected..."
What a beautiful description that not only brings to my own mind memories of growing up in a farmer/factory worker river town, but also of exploring the south side of chicago in the early 90s. But at the same time this is also a good example of how Reynolds writing style can be a bit too intrusive. Sure, overall it conjures up agreat image, but he cant seem to prevent himself from peppering his sentences with groan-worthy phrases like 'waxing lyrical' for instance. This habit has the effect of undercutting his overall argument, as it seems a bit too cute and a bit too snooty. Still, as I read along, his overall investigation is being laid out very well. He starts in the introducting by defining the parameters of Postpunk, and then goes chapter by chapter in providing examples that are nearly chronologcial and therefore build a sort of cause and affect sensation. He also provides examples of small little pockets and local scenes here and there that wouldnt seem to be connected to each other if it werent for his second chapter subtitled 'DIY and the British Independent-Label Movement'. By framing these scattered local scenes (if you could even call them scenes) in that context, it suddenly provides a framework that connects each of them. One scene consists basically of two bands on the Cuyahoga (devo & pere ubu), another scene consists of 4 bands from Leeds (gang of four, the mekons, the delta 5 and au pair) another scene is what he describes as the tribal revival (slits and the pop group) and another scene is the futurist such as caberet voltaire, the human league and the sheffield scene and so on.
So in that sense he is arguably making a case for the label Postpunk (although there are still some gapping holes in it)...
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