Bob Seger VS. Bruce Springsteen

[loudaab]

Based soley on their Pre-Mtv output, who was better?

And please lets just disregard all of the crap that doesnt really matter like indivdual awards and record sales:
~Bog Seger was inducted into the R-n-R HOF in 2004.
~Springsteen has won 15 Grammys and is also in the HOF.
~In dealing with each of these artists careers before Mtv (Mtv went on the air in August of '81 btw) Seger actually had more sales than Springsteen during that period.

Okay, now that that is out of the way, lets just forget about that shit because it really doesnt matter when it comes to the quality of each of these artists music and career...

[Ryosuke]

I don't know who Bob Seger is.

[Galactus]

This is ridiculous. At no point was Bob Seger even close to being as good Springsteen's worst album (which is Human Touch incidentally). Seger had some great singles nothing more.

Speaking of The Boss...

Bruce Springsteen With The Sessions Band Live in Dublin will be available on-line and in stores on June 5. The release will consist of: a concert DVD, Blu-ray Disc, and separate two-CD set. The songs and videos are drawn from the band's performances in Dublin, Ireland at The Point in November of 2006.

Songs include fan favorites from 'The Seeger Sessions,' radical interpretations from the Springsteen songbook and rare songs appearing for the first time on any Springsteen release.

Track listing

1. Atlantic City
2. Old Dan Tucker
3. Eyes on the Prize
4. Jesse James
5. Further on Up the Road
6. O Mary Don't You Weep
7. Erie Canal
8. If I Should Fall Behind
9. My Oklahoma Home
10. Highway Patrolman
11. Mrs. McGrath
12. How Can A Poor Man Stand Such Times And Live
13. Jacob's Ladder
14. Long Time Comin'
15. Open All Night
16. Pay Me My Money Down
17. Growin' Up
18. When the Saints Go Marching In
19. This Little Light of Mine
20. American Land
21. Blinded By the Light

Bonus Songs:
Love of the Common People
We Shall Overcome

[wayved]

PEW-early Seger kicks ass (Ramblin Gamblin Man, Noah, all those Hideout Singles, Mongrel--2+2 is such a kick ass song and I will bet only 5% of people here have heard "Death Row"). But you cannot compare Bruce Springsteen to him. NOT EVEN CLOSE. CMON!

[loudaab]

wayved said:

PEW-early Seger kicks ass (Ramblin Gamblin Man, Noah, all those Hideout Singles, Mongrel--2+2 is such a kick ass song and I will bet only 5% of people here have heard "Death Row"). But you cannot compare Bruce Springsteen to him. NOT EVEN CLOSE. CMON!

I think the comparsison between these two is a pretty natural one. They both are from basically the same era. The lyrical themes of their songs are similar (nostalgia, working man politics and story-teller songs). They both make Trad Rock. They both come from urban scenes. Seger had the Silver Bullet Band, Springsteen had the E Street Band. They both had HUGE successes with live albums and are known as putting on similarly structured live shows (no frills).
No, the main difference as I see it is that Sprngsteen is much more photogenic, which goes a long way in explaining how he was able to really hit it big during the Mtv years whereas Seger was shuffled to the bottom of the deck.

[Kensterberg]

loudaab said:

Based soley on their Pre-Mtv output, who was better?
I'm going with Bob Seger.

Springsteen pre-MTV:

Greetings
The Wild, the Innocent and the E Street Shuffle
Born to Run
Darkness on the Edge of Town
The River
Nebraska

and the greatest live shows in the history of rock and roll.

That ten year stretch ('73-'82) is the equal of any run in rock, and hands down better than 99.99% of the competition. I love some of Seger's work, but the simple fact is that the Boss takes this without even sweating.

[Galactus]

Specifically, when Seger was declaring himself your father's rock n' roll and bringing bar rock back...a smoke free, family friendly bar at that...Springsteen was being called the new Dylan and the furture of rock, with his picture on the cover of Time. His second album was considered to be full of songs that were too weird and long (the charge being too adventurous has never been leveled at Mr. Seger). The next album he took the radio back by force and kept a couple long weird songs to boot. FTR This is where The Boss actually overtook Seger in sales, five years before MTV aired. Outside of putting a cartoon naked lady on his first album cover Seger has always played it safe. Springsteen intentionally made albums that took rock radio and MTV respectively by storm and then freely walked away from both. Seger has never had that much control over his own music much less the industry. Throughout their career Seger has continually released good but cookie cutter classic rock albums and Springsteen has changed with every album. It is simply undeniable that Springsteen has Seger in every catagory.

[JACkory]

As far as I'm concerned, Bob Seger doesn't even hold a candle to Bruce Springsteen. It's ludicrous to even suggest it. Springsteen's musical originality outshines Seger's, which was based on a rather common form of Detroit rock 'n' soul then later country. Yeah, sure, Springsteen's was rooted in early classic pop & rock but he blew the doors wide open with songs like "Lost in the Flood", "The Angel", "Kitty's Back", the whole second side of The Wild, The Innocent & The E Street Shuffle, "Born to Run", "Backstreets", "Night", "Jungleland" (might as well list Born to Run in it's entirety), and that's just the first 3 albums, the tip of a very large iceberg.
But possibly the biggest difference between the two are the lyrics. There's no way anyone can say that Bob Seger is a better lyricist than Bruce. No fucking way, and if you try to make a case for that proposition I will laugh in your face. When's the last time you heard Bob Seger compared to Bob Dylan (who is quite probably the greatest lyricist of the 20th century)? I ain't saying that Seger doesn't pen a decent lyric now and then...some of them are quite good. But Springsteen amazes on a constant basis in that department.
EXAMPLE: Springsteen: "We got one last chance to make it real, to trade in these wings for some wheels, climb in back, Heaven's waiting down on the tracks" - "Thunder Road"
Seger: "Who's gonna break the news to Uncle Joe. You remember Uncle Joe? He was the one afraid to cut the cake" - "Fire Lake"
Afraid to cut the cake? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Seger's singing voice can be quite unpleasant at times, too. Every time you hear him it's like he smokes 2 packs a day and just came off of a 4 night stand in a dive bar, his larynx shredded and his throat sore. Right up there with Rod Stewart.
To sum it up, Springsteen shits all over Seger and that, my friends, is all she wrote.

[Ayinger]

As wayved points to, Seger's early material is surely worth a listen, and his band could get perking along as well. I'd say you'd have to start digging deeper once you got around to the "Horizontal Bop" period but there'd still be the one tune or two that rose above the mundane.

That said, while putting that Springsteen shits ALL over him is a tad harsh, the Boss is quite a bit farther up in this league.....QUITE a bit. Springsteen's vision especially has become far more reaching over the years.

I can see parallels that Pew may have been trying to draw here -- personally I don't think it'd be much more of a contest but I could see closer lines between Springsteen and John Mellencamp. Or even Springsteen and Tom Petty for that matter.

[loudaab]

Actually I put Seger above both Petty and Mellencamp as well. And also remember I'm just talking about the Pre-Mtv stuff. Overall I give the edge to Springsteen because he has been able to keep on keeping on whereas Seger started to peter out in the 80s.

But let me address some of the points made so far. First of al, I see nothing innovative at all about Springsteens work. I mean being called the "new dylan" doesnt sound very original to me. It sound like you are just going over the same road that someone else has already blazed. But let's look at Seger on the otherhand. Historically his career was involved with many important touchstones.

First and foremost he was a product of the late 60s Motor City Rock scene, the scene responsible for giving us the Stooges, Lester Bangs, the MC5 and the list goes on.

Also while still at the age to be drafted he was writing anti-war songs and being threatened with lawsuits (2+2=? is an ORIGINAL, not some "War what is it good for" copycat crap that was done during the one FEW times in recent US history when the country was NOT in an outright war).

Also remember that the late 60s Bob Seger System was actually a proto-punk band (a genre Springsteen has never really touched) and that later on Seger would actually not only top Rock charts but Country charts as well.

And last of all, lets take a comparitive look at how both men are considered to represent the blue-collar working class ethos. We see that Seger didnt really make it big until he was nearly 30 years old. We see that he had to toil in small clubs and work his way up the ranks, paying his dues, signing with small Indie labels, endlessly on the road trying for one last chance to make it in the biz. Springsteen was being called the New Dylan as soon as his first album came out and was getting his picture on the cover of the top magazines while riding around in limos. So when it comes to who actually represents the blue-colar workign man most authentically, the answer has to be Seger.

[Ayinger]

loudaab said:

Actually I put Seger above both Petty and Mellencamp as well. And also remember I'm just talking about the Pre-Mtv stuff. Overall I give the edge to Springsteen because he has been able to keep on keeping on whereas Seger started to peter out in the 80s.

awk! my bad -- read thru the first post too quickly and didn't hold onto the view of just pre-1980 contrasts.

Seger's early work would trounce Mellencamp's I'm pretty sure. I'll say I haven't spun every Seger album before Beautiful Loser but I've heard the "Johnny Cougar" years and there was just some pretty bbbbaaaad stuff there.

I'm gonna have to beg Glenn to send me some of those first few Seger albums to judge this any further (hey man, I'll send you a studio version of "Turn The Page" for a lil' Smokin' OP's or whatever it's called....).

On the other hand, I think there's a bit of an issue to be taken with comments that Springsteen just leapt onto the cover of Time & Newsweek without paying his dues. Remember that the E Street Band didn't just suddenly come into being and that Springsteen spent time playing the dives up & down the East Coast in a number of bands during the late 60's.

Timing and 'getting a break' has a lot to do with a band getting to the point of making it, let alone the talent.

[Galactus]

Pew, you don't really seem to know anything at all about Springsteen.

[loudaab]

ayinger said:

loudaab said:

Actually I put Seger above both Petty and Mellencamp as well. And also remember I'm just talking about the Pre-Mtv stuff. Overall I give the edge to Springsteen because he has been able to keep on keeping on whereas Seger started to peter out in the 80s.

On the other hand, I think there's a bit of an issue to be taken with comments that Springsteen just leapt onto the cover of Time & Newsweek without paying his dues. Remember that the E Street Band didn't just suddenly come into being and that Springsteen spent time playing the dives up & down the East Coast in a number of bands during the late 60's.

Timing and 'getting a break' has a lot to do with a band getting to the point of making it, let alone the talent.

Correct, but I see a big difference between Springsteen playing small gigs along the East Coast as a 19 and 20 year old (I mean at that age you just dont give a shit about staying in crappy hotels and surviving off fastfood or driving all night) compared to Seger playing to crowds as small as 50 people (in Chicago no less) at almost 30 years of age. And that difference comes out in the music. There is an authentic desperation in Seger's music around that period that reminds me of someone who has got the cuts and bruises, and has been backed into a corner, but he's still determined to be the last guy standing in the fight. I feel like he's actually experienced the things he's singing about in his songs, while with Springsteen it is more like he has witnessed these things as they have happened to other people(Seger also seems to use first or second person mostly in his lyrics while Springsteen is often in 3rd person). And that's probablly because he had a major record contract by 22 and didnt have to fight his way through like Seger had to.

[Galactus]

Yeah, that's because all of Seger's songs are about playing rock in bars, shit yeah he's experienced that.

Also it's not true that Springsteen was a big hit from the first album. He was always a critical favorite but the label almost dropped him after poor sales of both his first two albums. Born To Run was his last chance.

[skvorisdeadsorta]

I have to go with the Bruce on this one.

I also take issue with the fact that Bruce didn't put his blood, sweat, and tears into his work like PEW has suggested. That's insane! Did you finally invent a time machine where you can make those kinds of "insightful" statements?
The reason why Springsteen is so dearly embraced by the rock community is because he is that good. The man, like Dylan, can bring all walks of life into the webs of nicely spun stories that he has in his songs.

I like Bob Segar, but I just don't see how you can compare him to Springsteen. I will agree with you that I think he's much better than Mellancamp and loads better than Petty. I'm not a fan of Tom Petty. In fact, be bores me to tears, but he has managed to write a few catchy songs over the length of his career.

I also think that Lester Bangs would have been a music journalist whether he had discovered the Detroit sound or not. It was in his blood, not in some geographic location.