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Post by Matheus on May 1, 2007 20:26:43 GMT -5
Coming back after my hiatus and the initial “I’m back” talk, I wondered to myself, what exactly do I have to talk about? I know one subject that I could ultimately have a lot to say, and I’m kind of hoping it’ll take off with some robust discussion. I had also spoke to both Strat and Ken about getting my own board, and Strat in his wisdom told me that I should try it out as a thread and see where it goes from there. I ultimately agree with him, and I hope it goes somewhere.
I’m calling this thread (and hopefully board one day) “Pop as Art,” which references many things. I’m not just talking about “pop music” (as it is labeled) I’m talking about popular music. I’m also talking about the imagery in popular music. It could go a million different directions, which is why I initially wanted it to be a board and still hope so.
For example, Tori Amos released American Doll Posse today, where the music is based around 5 different characters that Tori came up with. The album artwork and the accompanying video also reflect that idea further. How important is this imagery to the music itself? Does it enhance the album? Does it leave the listener/viewer with a more complete experience?
Another example, and an obvious one, is Madonna. She uses imagery with great success to enhance her songs and albums. Recently during the Confessions Tour she put herself on a mirrored cross in order to reflect her idea that one of the messages of Christ was to help those in need. The mirrored cross also reflected the disco concept of Confessions on the Dance Floor, and the idea that every person suffers (seeing oneself on the cross).
I’m also going to throw in tabloid culture in here. Do the antics of celebrities help or hurt their popularity? Is all publicity good publicity? Does it go both ways?
Furthermore, I’m also a fan of Britney Spears, Justin Timberlake, Paris Hilton, and Christina Aguilera. All of them use imagery, and how important is this imagery to their music? I’m also obsessed with groups/artists like Chicks on Speed and Peaches who use a lot of surface qualities to sell their music (which I think is great). There are also bands/artists like Bjork, Tool, and Radiohead who use complex imagery to enhance their music.
I guess it’s a broad subject, but I think it’s fascinating. Popular culture and popular music (and yes, Radiohead, Bjork, Tool, and Tori Amos are all part of popular music, even though people don’t usually call them “pop” artists).
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on May 1, 2007 20:40:38 GMT -5
Dude, totally digging the idea on this thread. After reading this, I immediately I had to listen to Timberlake's "My Love". Yeah, man right on!
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Post by KooL on May 1, 2007 20:47:24 GMT -5
I need to give that Tori Amos album another shot. I only listened to it once, and it sounded just as flat as her last couple of albums.
the new Marilyn Manson is surprisingly good I must say. He's considered pop too, isn't he? Although he hasn't been really 'popular' for years now...
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Post by Matheus on May 1, 2007 20:52:28 GMT -5
That's too funny, Kool... just as you were posting that, one of my favorite Marilyn Manson concepts was...   Mechanical Animals with it's sheer scope of concept was brilliant, and the songs were amazing, which is also important. |
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Post by Matheus on May 1, 2007 20:54:15 GMT -5
Dude, totally digging the idea on this thread. After reading this, I immediately I had to listen to Timberlake's "My Love". Yeah, man right on! Great song, and I love the album. When I think of that album it makes me wanna listen to "Sexy Ladies"... the sheer cockiness of that song... I still don't know how I feel about him smashing the disco ball on the cover. |
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Post by KooL on May 1, 2007 21:01:19 GMT -5
I love Mechanical Animals. Easily my favourite MM album. I practically melted that disc when I first got it. I'd love it just as much even if it didn't have all the fancy artwork. I don't think I pay much attention to that stuff. I don't really care about music videos either, unless it's something really imaginative. It's the music that always comes first with me.
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on May 1, 2007 21:11:41 GMT -5
Eh, I like the first two Tori Amos records and then after that I think she becomes a dried up well. I will say she puts on one hell of a show. The woman knows how to please her fans when it comes to a live experience. She's also a fan of Neil Gaiman which makes her only 86 percent bad in my book. Still though, the woman needs some serious rediscovery.
I LOVE the new Marilyn Manson. It's a little bit different for him and it's nice to see him coming back out with something.
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Post by KooL on May 1, 2007 22:13:20 GMT -5
Actually, Tori's 4th album, from the Choirgirl Hotel was great too. I think that was the last album of hers I really, really liked. Everything has been pretty bland since. I'll still give her new one a chance though.
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Post by KooL on May 1, 2007 22:26:30 GMT -5
OK, I'm listening to the new Tori now, and I gotta say one song called "Teenage Hustling" is one of the best songs she's done in years. I don't think I've ever heard her rock out like that before. It suits her.
Over all, it's probably the 'heaviest' album she's made to date. I just wish she'd edit the damn thing. I'm sure there's a fine 10 track album in this 23-song mess.
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Post by Matheus on May 2, 2007 0:39:16 GMT -5
I love Mechanical Animals. Easily my favourite MM album. I practically melted that disc when I first got it. I'd love it just as much even if it didn't have all the fancy artwork. I don't think I pay much attention to that stuff. I don't really care about music videos either, unless it's something really imaginative. It's the music that always comes first with me. Yeah, the music is amazing. I have this tendency to be gravitated towards imagery. It might have something to do with my love of The Wizard of Oz when I was a kid. According to my parents and grandparents I watched that movie a ridiculous amount of times. I'm also a huge Madonna fan, and I don't think one can really get into Madonna as much if they aren't in it for the entire package. As for Mechanical Animals... like I said when I started this thread, the imagery enhances the music. One could listen to the music and probably get a clear idea of what Manson was presenting. In that I mean to say that it is very like unhuman... it's like he's in this "surface" landscape and he's looking for humanity. The thing we have inside of us, feelings. It's like Ritalin, the numbness. You have some thing with tits and no genetalia in a white-washed landscape complimenting that. There's no humanity there. You think about our porn industry and a lot of emphasis is place on huge boobs. The vagina isn't as focused on and for some reason the penis isn't as objectified (sexism, I think so). Mechanical Animals is kinda like looking for a connection in a non-connecting world. |
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Post by Matheus on May 2, 2007 0:40:40 GMT -5
BTW, I can't wait to get my hands on the new Tori album. I would have just bought it on iTunes, but I want the packaging. I have a thing for certain artists and having the package it comes in. The new Tori, Bjork, and White Stripes are all necessary to have in actual packaging. When I bought Timbaland's album, I didn't care if I had the packaging or not.
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Post by Paul on May 2, 2007 8:24:37 GMT -5
Not to rile anyone up or anything, but don't some "artist" like Ms. Spears possibly use visual art to make up for their actual lack talent - i.e. singing, song writing, etc...?
Overall, I think this is an interesting thread b/c pop culture and music go hand in hand. Since MTV has killed the idea of videos I don't know how relevant making them is to visually display your song - where would it be played now a days? Of course there is live performances, and many artist/entertainers can enhance their sound and image that way by. But again, having a big time produced show, will that take away or enhance the music? I guess it all depends on the performer - i.e. Madonna will have a much more elaborate stage show then Pearl Jam. The former may have light shows, dancers, cool clothes, etc...while the latter will pretty much just has instruments and plays songs. I'm not about to say one is better than the other, that's all a matter of opinion, but I guess what I'm asking are the live elaborate shows used to cover up a lack of talent, or to enhance the entertainers, and audience's experience? Please note that while I'm not much of a Madonna fan, I think she's ultra talented so I suppose I'm not really directing this towards her. I've been to live rock shows and the band used so much pyrotechnics that I couldn't help but to wonder - is this really helping expand the music, or just covering up how bad these cats are?
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Post by Rit on May 2, 2007 8:29:45 GMT -5
i agree with Paul. wouldn't Britney Spears use images solely to enhance an otherwise vapid and ugly music?
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Post by Dr. Drum on May 2, 2007 8:33:38 GMT -5
Good call on Choirgirl Hotel, Kool. Her best record, IMO, though I know it would come down to a choice between the first two for the diehards. After the false starts of its first two songs, the new record is quite good. I'd agree that it could have used some trimming, but I don't think she's in desperate need of an editor or anything. Most of it is fine; it just needed to be tightened up a little.
In terms of visuals and packaging, I think this one suffers badly in comparison with any of her recent discs (and just about everything else she's ever done, actually). The cover looks awkward, like a bad Photoshopping job. I'm fine with the 5-character thing, though; basically an elaboration of what she did on Strange Little Girls and 'Scarlet', to some degree.
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Post by Paul on May 2, 2007 8:40:22 GMT -5
This is the cover art for the new Beasties album...I think it gets the message out pretty well what they're doing. It reminds me of something out of Dr. Seuss meets Yellow Submarine. Considering this is not a typical BBoy album (they're rarely typical), and rumor has it that the entire album is an instrumental album, I think the cover works.  |
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