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Post by JesusLooksLikeMe on Jul 27, 2004 11:10:25 GMT -5
I think foreigners, or at least Europeans, respected Reagan without having any great liking for him. He was seen as a good President for Americans, making them feel good about themselves. Clinton was loved abroad, seen as a good American President for Europeans and the third world. That probably lead to some suspicion of him within the US itself, possibly? BUt yeah, the man is loved throughout Europe, and practically worshipped in Ireland.
Easily the most successful and awesome politician of my own lifetime. And of course, his Achilles heel - the inability to control his libido - just added a layer of semi-tragic humanity to the man, making him (if anything) even more easy to regard with affection. At least in Europe, where mistresses are practically a must-have accessory for yer average leader. ;D
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Post by Kensterberg on Jul 27, 2004 11:11:21 GMT -5
Chrisfan -- I think that there are some key differences between Mrs. Kerry's comments and Cheney's. Hers was directed towards a reporter, his was directed towards a US Senator. Hers shows a frustration with the way the news media operates, his shows a fundemental lack of respect for others at the highest levels of the legislative branch. She used the phrase "shove it" -- something that can be repeated in front of the smallest child and shown on any media outlet any time of day: he said "fuck you" or "fuck yourself" -- it's unclear which -- which is something that this adminstration's FCC, any broadcast media outlet would face huge fines for repeating, regardless of the hour of the day or night. Finally, she isn't running for anything, he is campaigning to continue to be 'a heartbeat from the Presidency.'
So on the whole, I think that it is disingenuous to say that these two are identical. Cheney's comments are more disturbing.
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Post by Proud on Jul 27, 2004 11:15:22 GMT -5
*pretty much agrees with ken on the whole "shove it" thing* now, i will say this... i don't excuse teresa for that comment. it was not the right thing to say, and i'm guessing it doesn't exactly do good for publicity. but i do understand her frustration and what not. as for cheney's comment, you never should say something like that if you're being watched like that, and certainly not when a bunch of people can hear you or the information can leak out pretty easily... *is reminded of andrew johnson*... p.s. punkchick, you know your politics. gary then, gary now, and gary forever. gary 2004, 2008, 2012, 20228383!  <-- smile smile! i'm proud illness, and i approve this message. |
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Post by chrisfan on Jul 27, 2004 11:16:46 GMT -5
Chrisfan -- I think that there are some key differences between Mrs. Kerry's comments and Cheney's. Hers was directed towards a reporter, his was directed towards a US Senator. Hers shows a frustration with the way the news media operates, his shows a fundemental lack of respect for others at the highest levels of the legislative branch. She used the phrase "shove it" -- something that can be repeated in front of the smallest child and shown on any media outlet any time of day: he said "fuck you" or "fuck yourself" -- it's unclear which -- which is something that this adminstration's FCC, any broadcast media outlet would face huge fines for repeating, regardless of the hour of the day or night. Finally, she isn't running for anything, he is campaigning to continue to be 'a heartbeat from the Presidency.' So on the whole, I think that it is disingenuous to say that these two are identical. Cheney's comments are more disturbing. Ken, if I wasn't laughing so hard at your saying this shortly after stating that conservatives just can't see past their perceptions on Clinton, I may just be pissed over the hypocrisy. Look, you defend liberals no matter what. That's fine. But youforgot one other key difference between the two ... Cheney was pissed at Lehey ripping him to shreads behind his back, and then trying to be his buddy face to face. Heinz-Kerry was angry that a reporter wrongly stated what she'd just said ... only she DID actually just say it. So she was accusing him of lying when he wasn't. Cheney was not angry over behavior Lehey WASN'T guilty of. Beyond that, Bush has used foul language and managed to get elected. KErry has used the f-word MULTIPLE times in interviews. Big frickin deal ... the day that voters make their choices based on anger management skills and word choices is the day that the entire leadership of Wwashington will be replaced with the cast of Sesame Street |
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Post by Proud on Jul 27, 2004 11:18:13 GMT -5
if cheney wants to tell the guy to f himself, that's super. but he should've said it at a better time.
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Post by chrisfan on Jul 27, 2004 11:19:19 GMT -5
And I'd still love to hear what you two think of the way Clinton handled Kyoto and the ICC.
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Post by Proud on Jul 27, 2004 11:21:28 GMT -5
i'll give you my thesis and introduction sometime soon.
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Post by JesusLooksLikeMe on Jul 27, 2004 11:21:32 GMT -5
Hey, anyone with their finger on (or near to) the button had better have some pretty good anger management skills! But the odd expletive shouldn't be made into a political issue. It's neither here nor there. We all swear, right? I don't mind a bit of humanity and passion in politicians. Cheney's use of the F-word is okay. Just wish he wasn't corrupt.  |
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Post by Kensterberg on Jul 27, 2004 11:25:01 GMT -5
Handling the Kyoto treaty? Didn't Clinton negotiate it? I don't have a problem with it myself.
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Post by chrisfan on Jul 27, 2004 11:28:24 GMT -5
Handling the Kyoto treaty? Didn't Clinton negotiate it? I don't have a problem with it myself. Yes, he did negotiate it. And he oversaw the stalling point in the negotiations when we could not get our European allies to make the concessions we were asking for to make it work. Therefore, he NEVER asked Congress to ratify it. And of course we all know that a treaty signed by the US is nothing but a pile of paper until Congress ratifies it. So Clinton handled it just like Bush did ... only Bush said it out loud. So if you don't have a problem with how Clinton handled it, does that mean you're satisfied with what Bush did with it? |
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Post by strat-0 on Jul 27, 2004 11:31:19 GMT -5
Ms. Kerry said "un-American traits." The reporter asked her about these "un-American activities," which smacks of Nixon-era "dirty tricks" terminolgy. I'd have told him to shove it, too.
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Post by JesusLooksLikeMe on Jul 27, 2004 11:32:06 GMT -5
Kyoto's but one of many problems I have with Bush's pro-polluter policies. The man's an environmental rapist. I urge you all to check out the link Drum provided if you think I'm overstating things.
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Post by Proud on Jul 27, 2004 11:35:23 GMT -5
i think we knew what bush would do with the environment before he got elected...
can't believe so many voted for nader. gore, all his flaws aside, was a champion of protecting the environment. silly voters. but, hey, i'm glad to have a democracy...
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Post by chrisfan on Jul 27, 2004 12:33:40 GMT -5
Kyoto's but one of many problems I have with Bush's pro-polluter policies. The man's an environmental rapist. I urge you all to check out the link Drum provided if you think I'm overstating things. I've looked at it. Why does it appear to be such a difficult concept for you to grasp that two intelligent people can look at hte same thing, and not draw the same conclusions from it? |
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Post by Ampage on Jul 27, 2004 12:57:04 GMT -5
Beyond that, Bush has used foul language and managed to get elected. KErry has used the f-word MULTIPLE times in interviews. Big frickin deal ... the day that voters make their choices based on anger management skills and word choices is the day that the entire leadership of Wwashington will be replaced with the cast of Sesame Street Thats not even funny to joke about! I am sure the first order of the day would be to make it legal for Burt and Ernie to get married! |
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<-- smile smile!
