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Post by chrisfan on Aug 25, 2004 8:35:04 GMT -5
Pissin, I have no way of attempting to get into the minds of any of the soldiers who are unhappy being there. I have three family members who have either been in Iraq, or are there now, and a couple of friends who are there. Each of them has firmly believed in the mission, so I have insight as to their thoughts, but not to any of the soldiers who are not happy about being there. Now I know that yesterday, you were somehow reading the minds of 7-11 workers who display the American flag, so obviously you have some talent for reading minds. But I don't, so I can't make a guess.
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Post by Galactus on Aug 25, 2004 8:51:14 GMT -5
Do you supose a soldier would be more likely believe in what he's doing because he has to rather then someone who is seperated from the situation?" You want to believe that the people who give your orders do so for a good reason, that you're being shot at for good reason. That being said most of the soldiers I've talked to said they didn't know why they were there and don't feel like they did much good...but they did their best because that's what they do.
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Post by chrisfan on Aug 25, 2004 9:00:15 GMT -5
As irritated as I get when people try to put thoughts into my head/mouth, I'm not going to attempt to try to assume to understand the thought process of soldiers I don't know, nor will I try to assume I understand the thought process of soldiers I know, but haven't discussed that with specifically. I can tell you that in the case of my cousin's son, he enlisted in the Army as soon as he graduated from college. Part of that was because his father, grandfather are both Army vets, and his uncle is currently in the army. But he said repeatedly that he was motivated to put off going to college to enlist BECAUSE of 9/11, and was very much looking forward to going to Iraq, BECAUSE he saw it as a mission we must accoplish. So given that he had such beliefs BEFORE enlisting, I'd venture to guess that those beliefs came from somewhere other than his military leaders, given that he had the beliefs before having the leaders.
Overall, I really think this discussion is so hypothetical that it's almost not even worth having. It almost assumes that there is a single line of thought, or just a couple of lines of thought, among soldiers. Given how varied the "whys" are on this board for beliefs, even among people who agree with each other, why would any of us believe that a soldier's thought process is any different and therefore could be explained collectively?
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Post by pissin2 on Aug 25, 2004 9:24:49 GMT -5
It was a simple question chris. With a simple answer. The war seems to be based on lies to many soldiers, because they are being lied to. I don't know this because I magically jump inside their heads (I can only use that gift to get inside the head of 7 11 workers, and even then after using it I have to let it replenish for a week before I can use the power again, and by the end of the week my armpits for some reason smell like hotdogs and slim jims), I know this because I've seen and heard them say it. Simple as that. And no, I'm not saying they all feel this way, but a lot of them do. They feel they are being lied to because they are not fighting for what they thought they were, or they have no idea at all what is going on. See? Simple. I don't see why you had to go on a long post about how you don't know what all soldiers are thinking, and how it's ridiculous to think they all have one single line of thought when I NEVER SAID ANYTHING LIKE THAT. Jeez.
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Post by Mary on Aug 25, 2004 10:12:07 GMT -5
Forget numbers. If I could be arsed then firstly I'd take Mary to task for totally ignoring me and any questions I've asked her for the last three months.  erm.... I've reverted to lurker status around here, I suppose, but.... what questions have you asked me for the last three months?? I would never willfully ignore the son of god, honestly. Even though I'm Jewish. And agnostic. So ask away. Cheers, M |
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Post by Galactus on Aug 25, 2004 10:38:36 GMT -5
It's the end of the world! Cheney did something that resembles the actions of a human being... www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129944,00.html |
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Post by stratman19 on Aug 25, 2004 10:55:01 GMT -5
I'm going off in a completely different direction, because frankly, I'm pissed off. The reason: There was a petition drive going on in this state to amend the state's constitution to prohibit same sex marriage. I had more than a passing interest in this, as my mother was very involved in getting petitions circulated, and worked very hard to get this measure on the ballot in November. The petition drive was a resounding success, garnering 500,000 signatures, when 317,000 were required. However, now this dickhead on the Board of State Canvassers, Doyle O'Conner, has decided he's not going to certify the petitions. This board is made up of two Democrats and two Republicans, and split along Party lines. Now, it's going to court, and while most legal experts overwhelmingly think the courts will overturn the Board's decision, and that O'Conner vastly overstepped his authority, it's just one more hoop to jump through. I just feel bad for my mom, who worked so hard on this. Hopefully though, the citizens of Michigan will still get a chance to vote on the measure in the fall. I hope so. Here's a link to the Detroit Free Press article. www.freep.com/news/politics/ballot25e_20040825.htmI'm just so goddamned sick and tired of being pushed around by a segment of the population that is so small (about 2%) but because the gay rights movement has such a powerful lobby, they can jam their lifestyle down the throats of most of the rest of us who feel it's wrong. Okay left wing kneejerkers, this is your cue to call me a homophobe. Well, I'm not. I'm just sick of this lifestyle being pushed in my face, and jammed down my throat. If you want to be gay, be gay. I just don't want to see it, hear about it, or know about it. And I sure as hell don't want 2% of the population telling the other 98% how things are going to be. Sorry, this rant is brought to you out of disappointment for my mother (at least for now). please continue with your regularly scheduled programming |
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Post by pissin2 on Aug 25, 2004 11:06:05 GMT -5
haha. I laugh, but seriously.......you make me sick in my stomach. How is the lifestyle being rammed down your throat? All they want is the same rights as you. Is that so hard to comprehend? The problem is they have to fight for them nowadays, so like it or not you're going to hear about it.
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Post by Galactus on Aug 25, 2004 11:08:55 GMT -5
Honestly, the majority of the time I hear anything about gays it's conservatives who think it's wrong complaining about how they're always shoving it your face. All of the gay people I know are very respectful of others, they pretty much keep it to themselves but at the same time they are not ashamed of it. Is that what you want? Do you want them to be ashamed of it?
It's shitty that this O'Conner has taken it unpon himself to stiffle the voices of the people he represents and it sucks that your mother and others work so hard to be shut down becuase he just doesn't feel like it. I'm sorry. I don't agree with the petition but you have to play by the rules. If you have enough names it should be on there and if a majority says so it should banned. Pretty simple.
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Post by stratman19 on Aug 25, 2004 11:15:32 GMT -5
I don't agree with the petition but you have to play by the rules. If you have enough names it should be on there and if a majority says so it should banned. Pretty simple.
The rules were played by, this guy is overstepping his authority simply because he doesn't like the petition. As I also said, his decision will likely be tossed out in court. And you're right DED, bring it to a vote of the people. That's all that is trying to be accomplished here. If a majority of Michigan citizens reject this amendment proposal, I can live with that. But bringing it to a vote of the people shouldn't be denied just because some dickhead is playing politics with the petitions.
And Pissin, feel free to find a nice dark corner in which to vomit. I couldn't give a fuck.
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Post by Galactus on Aug 25, 2004 11:24:08 GMT -5
I should have said "I don't agree with the petition but HE HAS to..." sorry to be confusing. My mind is faster then my typing.
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Post by pissin2 on Aug 25, 2004 11:29:10 GMT -5
Yes, I already know you couldn't give a fuck. That's why it makes me so godamn sick.
Hey you know what, maybe blacks shouldn't be allowed to get married in this country either. I think I'll start a petition for that. I'm sick of hearing the blacks whine all the time.
Whether the majority of the people agree with it or not, it doesn't fucking matter. It shouldn't be something that should be voted on in this first place. What gives your mom the right to decide what other peoples rights are going to be?
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Post by strat-0 on Aug 25, 2004 11:47:33 GMT -5
All they want is the same rights as you. Is that so hard to comprehend?
They already have the same rights.
The problem is they have to fight for them nowadays, so like it or not you're going to hear about it.
Are you saying that gays were more accepted and had more rights at some time in the past than they do now?
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Post by pissin2 on Aug 25, 2004 11:48:49 GMT -5
They have to fight for marriages
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Post by chrisfan on Aug 25, 2004 12:06:14 GMT -5
Whether the majority of the people agree with it or not, it doesn't fucking matter. It shouldn't be something that should be voted on in this first place. What gives your mom the right to decide what other peoples rights are going to be? It absolutely matters, because the Constitution of the state of Michigan says it matters. When you have an outlined legal process for how the Constitution can be amended, and that legal process is followed, it must be carried out. To not do so would lead to anarchy. Pissin, you as someone who spouts off about Bush being a facist, a dictator, blah blah blah blah blah should be able to see that if anyone should. Elected or government officials of any level should not and cannot be allowed to do their jobs as they wish to ... they have got to follow the law. Stratman, I understand and sympathize with your frustration 100% |
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