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Post by strat-0 on Aug 26, 2004 9:23:02 GMT -5
"Re: CE Volume 4
« Reply #9 on: Today at 11:39am »
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"pissin, I suppose if it's more about the actual sacrament of marriage rather than a preoccupation with sexual orientation for some people, then it needn't necessarily be bigotry. I dunno, maybe that's just semantic bollocks. I think there's obviously a huge connection between the anti-gay marriage movement and homophobia."
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Post by Thorngrub on Aug 26, 2004 9:32:03 GMT -5
That is a sentiment I can agree with -- JLLM's you quoted there, Strat. Except I feel that the problem lies even deeper than mere "homophobia": I feel that it is more an issue of straight-up "anthropophobia", or "hominophobia", if you will. The fear of humans, period. Humans doing what they will. But to examine this phenomenon more closely, I think what is going on, when looked at stripped down to its basics, is an even simpler matter of pure FEAR, period. We Fear. Well, I don't. And I urge you all to stop it, right now! There is nothing to be afraid of. We are all going to die. It is part of the natural order of things. Whether that death is delivered by a bullet, a shark's appetite, a bus, airline, runaway train, dirty bomb, switchblade knife, hangman's rope, or a terrorist attack, is of no real consequence. The end results are the same: preserving the natural order of the things by killing us off one by one. So: instead of fearing all this wack shit, my advice is to lighten up and have fun while you still can, people! ThoRny's Advice 4 The Day.  |
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Post by Thorngrub on Aug 26, 2004 9:43:54 GMT -5
Franklin Deleanor Roosevelt said it best:
"There is nothing to fear but Fear itself"
Put that in your pipe and smoke it, president Bush.
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Post by pissin2 on Aug 26, 2004 9:46:51 GMT -5
It's definitely fear. Maybe they're afraid a gay marriage will bring a lot of gay people celebrating to their neighborhood. Then you next thing you know they start moving there. Then the whole community is gay. And we can't have that because gays getting married is wrong. In fact gays getting along with other people is just wrong. Next thing you know there are flowers and pink flamingos on everyones lawn. It is absolutely disturbing to some people. Or maybe they don't mind the gays and their pretty flowers, but they are afraid of the people that hate gays so much that they would bring violence upon them, which in turn might accidentally harm one of their children, who are not gay. But why would people feel this way? Were they maybe abused as a child by a gay man? Or maybe they are just afraid because they are gay themselves and do not want to admit it. There are a million reasons it could be. It's just a shame that there will always be people in the world like this.
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Post by Thorngrub on Aug 26, 2004 9:58:06 GMT -5
Here are some more thought-provoking quotes from our former President Mr. Franklin D. Roosevelt:
"I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made."
-->Think "Dubya" is man enough to look the American public in the eye and say that? HA.
"A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. "
-->I'm sure some of you will respond in knee-jerk fashion to this one; that is, defensively. Try and think harder about it before you do.
"I think we consider too much the good luck of the early bird and not enough the bad luck of the early worm. "
--> Would that our current leaders displayed more balanced thinking such as this.
"If civilization is to survive, we must cultivate the science of human relationships - the ability of all peoples, of all kinds, to live together, in the same world at peace. "
--> Fucking think about it people. Seriously. Or don't: I wouldn't wanna force anyone to have to "change their minds" about anything, God Forbid.
"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way. "
--> I'll let this one speak for itself.
"Let us never forget that government is ourselves and not an alien power over us. The ultimate rulers of our democracy are not a President and senators and congressmen and government officials, but the voters of this country."
--> In case We've forgotten.
"More than an end to war, we want an end to the beginning of all wars - yes, an end to this brutal, inhuman and thoroughly impractical method of settling the differences between governments."
--> What do you conservatives think about this? Put away your fears and embrace it, I say. It's what your own God would want. It is up to us to deliver it to Him.
"Physical strength can never permanently withstand the impact of spiritual force. "
--> FDR was a wise president. Would that we had one in office now...
"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it comes strong than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. "
--> Read it again and try to understand it if its not getting through to you. FDR said it himself: If he could only have viewed our present day through a window, he would have despaired at our having become a fascist state, just as he warned could happen.
"Men are not prisoners of fate, but only prisoners of their own minds."
Dwell on these quotes, my fellow posters and especially Americans. Take them to heart.
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Post by strat-0 on Aug 26, 2004 9:59:26 GMT -5
I know this is off the subject of gay marriage and who is or is not as stupid as a primate. But it cracked me up, so I just wanted to share ... I was just talking to a friend of mine who works in ad sales for a TV station. All year long, they've been going along thinking that because of McCain-Feingold, the political advertising revenue they'd have this year would be different, and that as of Labor Day, it'd be more controlled, with only candidates spending money, due to the soft money bans. But they're discovering now that there is a loophole in the law ... the language only bans unions and corporations from advertising inside of the political window. So all of the groups who'd advertised before (and were supposed to be banned now) have re-organized arms of their groups that are unincorporated, so they can continue to advertise. In other words, McCain Feingold was a big photo op with no teeth. Just goes to show yet again ... Washington is not the place to look for solutions to problems! Kind of like a shell game, isn't it? |
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Post by pissin2 on Aug 26, 2004 10:37:31 GMT -5
FDR was a wise man indeed. Where have all the wise men gone?
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Post by Galactus on Aug 26, 2004 10:51:05 GMT -5
I just read the constitution and it doesn't mention marriage even once. Now that's out of the way I'll track down my state's constitution. I'm not sure how gay marriage would constitute bigitry maybe it was explained and just didn't get it. Eek eek.
Pissin, he's right no ones rights are being taken away...yet. Gays should have had the right to marry anyway but they don't, however it also doesn't say anywhere that they can't. So it's sort of in rights limbo. They're not making it leagal for them to give each other hand jobs in resteraunts. The difference between the way it is now and the way it would be is that the husbands or wives would get a few more leagal claims and they'd have a nice peice of paper to hang over the mantle. Would that be so terrible? Seriously if you're against gays in general wouldn't you rather be bound in some leagal way then running around spreading gay all over the place?
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Post by Thorngrub on Aug 26, 2004 10:51:05 GMT -5
Maybe they went chasin' after them Good Times.
They all must've fallen off the ends of the earth somewhere...
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Post by Thorngrub on Aug 26, 2004 10:52:04 GMT -5
FDR was a wise man indeed. Where have all the wise men gone? Maybe they went chasin' after them Good Times. They all must've fallen off the ends of the earth somewhere... |
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Post by pissin2 on Aug 26, 2004 10:53:29 GMT -5
So it's in rights limbo. But the fact is there are people that are still trying to make sure that they will not have this right. Ta hell with them I say.
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Post by Thorngrub on Aug 26, 2004 11:04:01 GMT -5
What is going on in this country DED in my opinion is a flagrant and unprecedented burgeoning of the ultra-conservative sect, and this in and of itself would not necessarily constitute a problem per se, except that a significant portion of said sect is also tied into Big Money and corporate business, via the Pharmaceutical companies and the Oil Industry.
What is going on here, put plain and simply, is a MONOPOLY across a fundamental spectrum of our economy. Private power has indeed grown stronger in this country than our democratic state itself. That is, pure and simply, fascism. There is no room for argument. We are evolving along textbook, classic definitions of fascism, here in the good ol' USA.
Of course the bleating sheep with blinders on won't see this; but they have never been able to see the Forest for the Trees. What else is new.
We are not prisoners of the terrorists, nor their despicable tactics. We are prisoners of our own minds, just as FDR said. Until we can let go of our blinding preconceptions, we shall remain shackled to this by our own ignorance.
This country may truly and realistically be judged by the enemies it has made: yet we tremble in abject fear, going so far as to implement "Homeland Security", well I'm telling you straight up that is unadulterated bullshit, and a growing contingency of smart, aware, and concerned citizens can smell it from a mile off.
Even if president Bush wins this next election, his scant 4 years of further incessant damage to the spirit and economy of this once-great nation shall prove to be negligible in the face of our greater future and destiny.
George W. Bush is easily going to go down in history as the #1 Worst President these United States ever had, by an inordinately extreme long shot. That is my 100% guarantee.
So let this man do his worst. If he does, it will only speed up the recovery process as more alarms go off in sensible american's heads. Maybe he'll fuck up so badly in his final term that We the People will be handed over on a silver platter all the motivation we need to IMPEACH HIS NEGLIGENT ASS.
In any case, if you ask me, it's a "Win - Win" situation. We the People will prevail over the narrowminded, bigoted, selfcentered greedy business exploits of these fundamentally challenged extreme rightwing parasites.
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Post by RocDoc on Aug 26, 2004 11:39:53 GMT -5
FDR never faced such a 100% instantly communicated global religion-based world-wide threat such as these crazy Islamist fucks....his pithy witticisms would had a few wise-er twists to them. A far far faaaaar different world today...and you'd be a complete fool to think it's not.
He'd be smart enough to adapt...
"More than an end to war, we want an end to the beginning of all wars - yes, an end to this brutal, inhuman and thoroughly impractical method of settling the differences between governments."
- Fuck, we ALL want 'an end to all wars'! No fucking shit. Even GWB(how about YOU think about it).
How about having to MEET threats? How about having to meet those brutal, inhuman and thoroughly impractical methods which Al Q'aeda has vowed to use, while single-handedly carrying on with leaving Iraq unable to rebuild itself throught THEIR thirst for power? Creating needless continued misery in a people who ALREADY experienced generations of Hussein's sadism...
Oh. We should just allow them to take it?
Oh. Why THAT is JUST the way that that cocksucker FDR gave up Poland, E Germany and the Baltics to Stalin as 'balm for his wounds'??
His paean to "...the ability of all peoples, of all kinds, to live together, in the same world at peace. " was then to let the evil powerful fuckers have their little antfarms, just so's he was left alone....
Which within the complications and dead-alleys of communication and knowledge of the time(meaning that many thought that the existence of a crazy paranoid pig like Stalin was 'just the way it is'), probably WAS the thing to do....there, at least was a nominal 'ally' who only brutalised INTERNALLY and externally only when someone like Germany threatened him....those were the times.
Insular and very happy to say 'it's NIMBY, so fuck it.'
Transport and mass communications advances today have cancelled VAST segments of that enforced insularity, y'see...
~
Lovely soapbox thorn, but I think you really need to lower the altitude a bit, Oxygen deprivation's leading you to believe you've got all the fucking(TOO obvious)answers....stop with the "wake up!' implorations, like we're a bunch of maroons, eh?
The oversimplifications just make me want to tell you to go fuck off.
I dunno, maybe it's just me...
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Post by pissin2 on Aug 26, 2004 11:59:51 GMT -5
Why didn't you just straight up tell him to fuck off then, instand of typing out that whole post.
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Post by Galactus on Aug 26, 2004 12:42:18 GMT -5
OK this 527 shit is getting out of hand. It's really turning into playground politics. Both of these guys are starting to look like real assholes ( I already thought Bush was an asshole but even if I didn't I would now...or something like that) What they're doing is really petty and really unfair to McCain. They both need to let it go and talk about some real issues.
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