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Post by Galactus on Sept 16, 2004 13:35:14 GMT -5
I think it's pretty fine line some times. It's been amazing to me watch the Bush team stay a step ahead of Kerry's. One day Cheney's saying we'll be attacked again if you vote for Kerry and the next day Kerry's going crazy. Cheney apologises for it and quite honestly it was easy to get out of and he knew it, he said it knowing he'd get called on it. Bush sneaks in health care while Kerry is still crying foul and now all you have to do is look at Kerry and say "Why don't you quit whining and talk about the issues?" This isn't questioning who's right or wrong, this is polotics. Edwards is about as usefull as Quayle was...it's like watching the harlem globtrotters play a college basketball team. The college team is a good team but nobody is as good at what the globtrotters do as the globetrotters. Again I'm not talking about who's right or wrong or ideology. I'm talking strictly the game of polotics...using basketball references appearently... Kerry should be trying to play straight basketball but he's trying to beat the globtrotters.
It made sense in my head...
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Post by chrisfan on Sept 16, 2004 14:08:32 GMT -5
Couple things ... On the Cheney "attack" comment, he didn't really apologize or reverse comment on what he said. I saw the full town hall meeting. He DID clarify what he said at that moment ... not later when he was called on it. The soundbite was cut short by reporters, and Edwards jumped on the shortened version.
As far as using comments like that, Cheney and Bush have very effectively used them against Kerry. IT's been said by many that Kerry is the king of nuance, and that's how he's been elected as many times as he is. HE doesn't stick to a position, and he doens't get specific. He words things in such a way that people on either side of theissue will say "Yeah, he's taking my side!". That's very effective ... until you're forced to be nailed down on a topic. Bush and Cheney have each effectively put words in Kerry's mouth from time to time, forcing him to take a side by either saying "I did not say that" or by saying nothing, and letting their summary stand. If nuance is fair (and it is), then forcing someone to be nailed down to a position is too.
Bush doens't have to "sneak in" healthcare or any other issue when Kerry's whining. He just keeps on whining. If Bush wants to do anything but respond to the whining, then it will be perceived as "sneaking it in'. KErry is welcome to stop whining at any time.
And Edwards? Think about it ... Democrats can't hammer Bush for his guard service at the same time they're spotlighting Edwards. Where was Edwards in Vietnam? They've made it an issue, and it's blown up as an issue that leaved Edwards either invisible, or a vulnerability.
Bottom line -- Bush has always been very effective in the attacks against him, because he usually faces them straight on. (sometimes himself, sometimes through surrogates) The DUI is a great example -- he didn't dodge it by whining that it came out the weekend before the election. He made a public statement the night it happened, owning up to it, explaining why he didn't mention it before, and defused it. Journalists typically smell blood like sharks only for as long as there's somethingbeing hidden from them. You let the cat out of the bag, and they go sniffing off tothe next story. Kerry doens't seem to have learned that as well. Then, there's also the fact that Bush has been facing these same old criticisms for as long as he's been running. You notice that Dan Bartlett and Mindy Tucker are answering to the guard charges now, and not Scott McLellan, or Matt Dowd? Why would you take the press secretaries off of something like that, and make the communications director and a consultant handle it? Because Bartlett and Tucker were with Bush back when he was governor ... they've repeated these talking points several times before.
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Post by pissin2 on Sept 16, 2004 14:12:55 GMT -5
 Russell Pennington died after lightning struck him during football practice on Tuesday.Bahahaha! Sorry. |
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Post by Ampage on Sept 16, 2004 14:35:12 GMT -5
WTF? You’re a total asshole.
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Post by Galactus on Sept 16, 2004 14:41:28 GMT -5
Couple things ... On the Cheney "attack" comment, he didn't really apologize or reverse comment on what he said. I saw the full town hall meeting. He DID clarify what he said at that moment ... not later when he was called on it. The soundbite was cut short by reporters, and Edwards jumped on the shortened version. He'd said it before that...not that blunty, but he'd been saying it for while. I'll agree here... We'll just disagree here. As I said I'm not really getting into who's right or wrong only the tactics being used. The basic tactic is this- one of them puts Kerry on the defensive, while the other talks up an issue and then they both jump on Kerry for whining and not talking about the issues. Kerry keeps trying to turn it on them and put them in the hot seat but it just makes him look that much more whiny. He feels the need to answer every charge and doesn't ever get back to his plans. Bush simply prentends they aren't that big of deal, he doesn't always admit them but he doesn't get hung up on defending them. I suspect because he knows the harder he defends himself the more credence he gives the charges, so he just acts like it's not important...now why can't Kerry figure that out? Again, I'm so sure it's because he "faces" them so much as he downplays them and he is very good at that. Bush is also a master at passing the buck. There's not a chance in hell you'll agree with me though. He's good, he's very good. He's every bit as good a liar as Clinton was. I'm not going to start pretending I trust him for sake of these conversations. I assume we'll just disagree here too... |
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Post by Galactus on Sept 16, 2004 14:42:03 GMT -5
Pissin, that's just fucked.
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Post by Ampage on Sept 16, 2004 14:44:34 GMT -5
Oh he is probably just jealous because he has limited athletic abilities, was not liked in high school, and spends 24/7 in front of a computer trying helplessly to make himself feel superior.
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Post by chrisfan on Sept 16, 2004 15:05:53 GMT -5
We'll just disagree here. As I said I'm not really getting into who's right or wrong only the tactics being used. The basic tactic is this- one of them puts Kerry on the defensive, while the other talks up an issue and then they both jump on Kerry for whining and not talking about the issues. Kerry keeps trying to turn it on them and put them in the hot seat but it just makes him look that much more whiny. He feels the need to answer every charge and doesn't ever get back to his plans. Bush simply prentends they aren't that big of deal, he doesn't always admit them but he doesn't get hung up on defending them. I suspect because he knows the harder he defends himself the more credence he gives the charges, so he just acts like it's not important...now why can't Kerry figure that out? Bush DOES answer to the charges ... he's just comfortable allowing his staff to do the answering, rather than doing it himself. Scott McLellan had comments on the Kitty book and the Moore movie. Dan Bartlett has done interviews on the guard story, and Mindy Tucker is back on TV talking about it too. He doesn't ignore it, he does answer it, but he ANSWERS it ... he doesn't play the "how dare you ask me" game that Kerry does. And it is downplayed by not reaching the priority of something the president himself deals with. As far as the issues ... I don't think that Kerry can really go BACK to his solutions given that he's never left them. He'd have had to have talked about them at some point in order ot go back to them. Again, I'm so sure it's because he "faces" them so much as he downplays them and he is very good at that. Bush is also a master at passing the buck. There's not a chance in hell you'll agree with me though. He's good, he's very good. He's every bit as good a liar as Clinton was. I'm not going to start pretending I trust him for sake of these conversations. I assume we'll just disagree here too... DED, it's cut and dry simple. I can call Clinton a liar, because he was deemed by the House of Representaitives to have lied ... and under oath to boot. He said he did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky, and yet there's DNA proof that he did. Therefore, he categorically lied. (it goes back to the Gennifer Flowers vs Donna Rice thing from a few days ago). Bush on the other hand, people say "oh he lied, he lied" and yet they cannot point to where he categorically lied. Even the beloved yellow cake "lie" has been blown to smithereens by the 9/11 commission report determining that Joe Wilson's discrediting the claim was actually discredited itself. |
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Post by RocDoc on Sept 16, 2004 15:06:15 GMT -5
Pissin confirms his invertebrate existance with every utterance...
~
"Gibberspeak", thorn?
What, your Emerson College taught you to write but couldn't be bothered with your reading skills?
Or you just are completely lacking the imagination to place a missing comma...
~
Oh wait, you were just using that incredibly deflating putdown(ouchouchOUCH!) to 'deflect' the comment which YOU directly asked for? That?
Wasn't THAT it?
I mean, you know from commas n'shit...
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Post by Thorngrub on Sept 16, 2004 16:04:03 GMT -5
Actually, RocDoc, it's just that I find it hard to follow your train of thought, sometimes. Sorry for making such a cruel jab at your (quite proficient) "grammatizing". 'twas a low blow.
That doesn't change the fact I still don't know WTF you were going on about. But to deflect this downward spiralling argument, let me just say I have always admired your eclectic, hectic, and inSANEly preCISE posting-enunciations and rubik's-cube grammatics. You are something of a virtuoso, you know that? It's just that, despite your unusual ability to keep 30 plates spinnin in semi-coherent fashion, I still often find myself scratchin' my head at just WTF you're goin' on about.
I'd rather focus on aligning our similarities in an attempt to get those working for us, rather than against us, when we converse. So if you're game -- then I, in turn, will try and discuss these various volatile subjects with you in a more, shall we say, civil fashion?
Or we can just keep at each other's throats . . . it's all the same to me . . . it's just that it's getting tiresome, and it goes nowhere, and to tell you the truth, I like you despite these inherent differences between us. But if we are to remain each other's online nemeses . . . then so be it. It is largely tongue-in-cheek with me, so please understand I don't really hold it against you.
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Post by ModernDeathTrend on Sept 16, 2004 18:44:14 GMT -5
Russell Pennington died after lightning struck him during football practice on Tuesday.Bahahaha! Sorry. After seeing the guy's picture I can tell what is so funny. He looked like a re-animated dead man anyway. I guess 2 bolts of lightning is too much. LMFAO |
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Post by stratman19 on Sept 16, 2004 18:50:44 GMT -5
After seeing the guy's picture I can tell what is so funny. He looked like a re-animated dead man anyway. I guess 2 bolts of lightning is too much. LMFAO It's a shame that lightning bolt didn't find your sick, pathetic ass. And for the record, I'm not so sure that you and the newly arrived 'nympho' aren't a couple of long lost RS trolls. |
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Post by ModernDeathTrend on Sept 16, 2004 18:58:42 GMT -5
Ohhh, Did I say something wrong? Exvuse me if I find alot of things funny, especially death. Lets face it, there are some types of deaths that are just fucking hilarious. Pissin sees humor in this instance, just like I do.
Trolls? Last time I checked I was a human. I am not green, no long nose or big ears.
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Post by strat-0 on Sept 16, 2004 19:04:38 GMT -5
All three are officially red-carded for that crap. It's not funny, nobody's laughing, and I'm not kidding. Take it someplace else.
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Post by ModernDeathTrend on Sept 16, 2004 19:08:05 GMT -5
All three are officially red-carded for that crap. It's not funny, nobody's laughing, and I'm not kidding. Take it someplace else. Well I know that I am laughing, so therefore someone is laughing. LMFAO |
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