Should We Drill Alaska?

[Thorngrub]

Move closer to work for fuck's sake.

[skvorisdeadsorta]

Or learn to ride a bike to further distances. Also, I'm way down to start riding horses again.

[skvorisdeadsorta]

Personally, I listen to guys like my dad, who during his childhood spent most of his time seeing his family on the TRAIN. He was born in 1947 and he said that trains were essential until about 1965 for travel and it was FUN. Most people on the East Coast know this, as they use the train all the time. I think a great alternative would be to make cheap tickets, privitize the industry and stop giving pork barrel over to Amtrak who just can't seem to get that crap together, and rebuild the train system of this country. With the techonology of FAST electric trains, I think you could do this all over the country. It would create jobs (hell yeah, I'd lay down track) and an infrastructure that would be positive to the economy and the environment. Will, it happen? No.......but I sure would like to see it.

[strat-0]

There's a good idea.

[Galactus]

Actually there's proposal to run a passenger train through the town my store is in again.

[phil]

People don't take the train because the service isn't good enough
and the service isn't good enough because
there aren't enough people who take the train...

Since the British rail system was privatized 10(?)years ago
it has gone from bad to worse while the French system
(when the employees are not on strike... )
is one of the fastest and effecient mean of transportation...

[phil]

And trains are the best
to get to know new people
while travelling abroad ...

[chrisfan]

phil said:

And trains are the best
to get to know new people
while travelling abroad ...

and for making movies about people getting to know each other while travelling abroad.

[skvorisdeadsorta]

admin said:

There's a good idea.

Thank you, and what I point out to people all the time is that we should do it because it worked before and very well. They have trains now that go sooo fast, way faster than cars that the argument that it's slow is null and void. It's so do-able. Besides, sometimes taking things from the past is a good thing.

[Galactus]

The biggest problem with trains is that people have gotten so used to running on thier on schedule. They don't want to wait til 5:15 to go they want to go now.

[chrisfan]

ded said:

The biggest problem with trains is that people have gotten so used to running on thier on schedule. They don't want to wait til 5:15 to go they want to go now.

The flip side of that of course is the sheer joy that it brings you when you take public transporation to work, and at 5:15 you can say "Sorry boss, I'd love to stay and help, but the last bus leaves at 5:25"

[strat-0]

Oh, yeah, and part of the beauty of trains is that there's virtually no travel fatigue. You can get up and stretch, walk down to the club car for a meal and drinks. Even on commuter trains, you have a lot more room and smoothness than other forms of travel, and you don't have to drive, so you can do something else.

Bringing it back to the topic a bit, I don't think we are going to find a single magic bullet for our energy problems soon, but rather a collection of reliefs for them. The electricity to power the trains has to come from somewhere, possibly coal fired power plants in this country. That's OK, but no environmental improvement; however, those plants can be made to burn clean, if the power companies are compelled to. At any rate, rail travel could help to relieve the strain. Nice way to see the country, too.

[kmc]

But the problem remains one of infrastructure, and we shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking that there are no other alternatives. I hate to bring it back to Brazil, but understand that the perenially fragile Brazilian economy took a tremendous hit in the early 70's when it voted to cut its dependence to foreign oil by 50 percent. Hell, I lived there throughout the eighties: the move to ethanol was one humongous reason (among many) for the terrible financial times the country (mismanaged as it was) underwent.

Point being, we put a man on the moon, and in 2005 I am typing this message from something more powerful than the computers on Apollo 11. We can certainly come up with something to power vehicles that is both cleaner and renewable. Whether or not we can withstand the loss in capital and restructure our economy away from big oil is another concern.

[Dr. Drum]

I’d imagine this will be one of those recurring bad ideas that will keep coming back over and over again but good news nonetheless.

[upinkzeppelin2]

Facts About ANWR
The Conservative Majority ^ | Oct. 14, 2001 | Republican_Strategist


Posted on Monday, October 15, 2001 1:06:55 AM by Republican_Strategist



Fact 1 -The Coastal Plain of ANWR(Arctic National Wildlife Refuge) is America's best bet for the discovery of another giant "Prudhoe Bay-sized" oil and gas region in North America. Many economic benefits would result: - The Coastal Plain could produce up to 1.5 million barrels per day for at least 25 years - nearly 25% of current daily U.S. production. - The U.S. would save $14 billion per year in oil imports. Federal revenues would be enhanced by billions of dollars from bonus bids, lease rentals, royalties, and taxes. Estimates in 1995 on bonus bids alone were $2.6 billion.



Fact 2 -EIA’s Annual Energy Outlook 2000 reference, the potential ANWR oil recovered would have a value between $125 and $350 billion.



Fact 3 -The estimates for the entire 1002 area (Coastal Plain), within this area, USGS 1998 estimates that there are between 15.6 and 42.3 billion barrels of oil in place, with a mean of 27.8 billion barrels.



Fact 4 -More than two out of three Alaskans (75%) report they support exploration on the Coastal Plain of ANWR. Annual polling conducted in by the Dittman Research Corporation demonstrated that a vast majority of Alaskans continue to support opening ANWR to oil and gas exploration.



Fact 5 -The U.S. imports over 57% of the nation's needed petroleum. These oil imports cost more than $100 billion a year. These figures are rising and could exceed 65% imports by the year 2005. ANWR production could replace imports of Saudi oil for over 30 years.



Fact 6 -A 200 day supply is almost 4 billion barrels. The Coastal Plain probably contains much more oil, but it can be produced at a maximum rate of 2 million barrels per day (capacity of the trans-Alaska oil pipeline). Therefore, it could last for 25 years, and probably much longer.



Fact 7 -ANWR. Doyon Ltd., a Native regional corporation with Gwich'in shareholders, supports ANWR development. Further, the Alaska Federation of Natives with a membership of 90,000 Alaska Natives is also in support of this issue.



Fact 8 –There are no listed endangered species on the North Slope or in the coastal plain. Alaskans have always trod lightly on the land and have honored the animals as a source of sustenance.



Fact 9 -A national survey conducted by the Christian Science Monitor in October showed that Americans support oil production in the ANWR, by a 54 to 36 percent margin.



Fact 10 -City governments in Alaska support exploration and development on the Coastal Plain of ANWR. They understand the direct benefits to communities that nearly 30 years of oil and gas development on the North Slope has brought to them in the form of jobs, tax base, state funds for local roads, schools, public buildings and services. Many individuals from local governments have participated in education visits around the country.



Fact 11 -The Alaska state Legislature has in the past passed a Resolution supporting ANWR development by 60 votes to zero.



Fact 12 -The Inupiat Eskimos who live on Alaska's North Slope and the residents of Kaktovik, who live on the coastal plain itself, all support careful development there, "in their back yard", or "on their dining room table".



Fact 13 -All the major union groups such as the AFL-CIO, the Teamsters, the Maritime unions have been involved in oil development in Alaska. In recent years they have occupied at least 50% of the development jobs on the North Slope and have a good relationship with the major oil producers.



Fact 14 -Economists at the Wharton School of Econometrics in Pennsylvania have calculated that full development of the estimated reserves of oil beneath the coastal plain would generate about 735,000 jobs nation-wide in every state in America. The Unions would like to take their fair share of those jobs which would often be long term and high paying.



Fact 15 -In 1995 both the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate passed legislation to open the coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to careful oil and gas leasing and development. The legislation never became law because President Clinton vetoed the Budget Bill. [but it's Bush's fault that gas prices are so high...er hur..]



Fact 16 -In several public opinion polls made in 1995 Americans were almost entirely unaware of the issue surrounding oil development in ANWR. However, when they were told that development was opposed by environmentalists and the Secretary of the Interior, but supported by the government of Alaska and the vast majority of Alaskan natives, they responded 45% to 44% in favor of development. The margin of support increased to 56% in favor and 37% opposed when additional facts on the issue were provided to them. A very high majority, 74%, favored searching for domestic oil rather than importing foreign oil.