Which one are you?

[phil]

Sorry !

It's difficult to type while...

ROTFLMFAO !!

[phil]

Efforts are under way to restore part of Siberia to the way it was more than 10,000 years ago, before the end of the last ice age


Once again, if our own intellectual giant here
had made the effort to read the entire article
instead of just "grazing" over the title and introduction,
she'd learn that it is still in the theorical stage
and the experiment at first would take place
over a relatively small (fenced) area with only horses and bisons ...

[Nepenthe]

phil, I have the entire pdf file on the project.

[Nepenthe]

Do you know who is funding it phil? ehem....The Soros Foundation.

[phil]

THEN READ IT FOR CRYIN' OUT LOUD !!

And then tell us what they want to prove with this experiment

and also share with us why it is so important for your "creationist theory"
or whatever your brilliant mind has learn from it !!

[phil]

Do you know who is funding it phil? ehem....The Soros Foundation.

Ehem... What the fuck !

PLEASE STOP !! You're making me dizzy !!

[phil]

I'm outta here !

I need a drink... Hard liquor !!

Real bad ...

[strat-0]

I was about to say that this discussion is pointless, since De refuses to read or cannot understand the information provided here:

www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wells/iconob.html

But I won't, because that info was very edifying for me - thank, Luke. However, trying to argue the shifting sands of De's meandering statements is pointless. This is clear because highly qualified and eminent scholars there have utterly discredited Well's entire book, point by point and as a whole, yet she still refers to the "misleading textbooks" and the same examples (horses, peppered moths, embryo drawings, etc.) which were debunked in plain and simple terms there (OK, the moth stuff gets pretty technical, but the points are easy enough to get).

De, if you can actually read that and still cling to your "horse evolution" crap, etc., you may really have a comprehension problem. I'm not trying to shake your faith or knock your beliefs, here - believe what you want to believe. You'd be better served to just come out and say that you don't care about facts; faith trumps facts every time.

[Mary]

Wow - just got back into town and read through the past 8 or so pages of this board - in the eminent words of Mr. Paul Weller, now that's entertainment!!!!

This was hilarious. And man, all the links to talk.origins gave me a blast of geek nostalgia, from my early college days when I was strangely obsessed with evolutionary theory! Glad to see that site is still up and running strong

The one thing I will note more seriously - I won't even bother with the nonsense about ID vs. "evolutionism" (it cracks me up even to see "ism" tacked onto "evolution" in this derisive way, as though to imply it's some kind of ideology and not simply a scientific theory) but I noticed in many of Tuatha's back posts this recurring insistence - "you know, 40% of scientists actually believe in God!" or "Einsten believed in a creator!" as though these people are thus in the camp of creationism. Believing in a "creator" and being a "creationist" are two completely different things, of course, and belief in God is entirely consistent with rejecting intelligent design. I would wager that many of these believer scientists incline toward a more deistic view of the universe, in which God got the whole ball rolling, but then basically dropped out of the picture, and no longer actively intervenes in his own creation. Evolution is not a theory about the origins of the universe, it's about explaining the diversity of life forms. The origins of the universe remain an open question, and one can accept that evolution wholly explains the diversity of life forms without rejecting a creator to explain the origins of the universe.

It's not my thing, of course - I'm an agnostic. But quoting scientists who believe in God is absolutely and utterly irrelevant to establishing the intellectual credentials of creationism.

Anyway....thanks for the laugh - by all means, continue!!!!!

Cheers,
M

[Thorngrub]

mary: That was as perfect a rebuttal as I could imagine encountering here.

And strat-0 - - > Your comment about "Faith trumping facts everytime" hit the nail on the head, straight-up.

Tuatha: All I can say is, what's your problem with openly admitting that FAITH is a GOOD thing -? And why so busily attempting to "prove" the "unprovable", anyhow? I just think you'd fare better by acknowledging that what you believe is derived via Faith, not empirical evidence, and more to the point, that the very definition of your Faith is that it absolutely DOTH NOT REQUIRE such empirical proofs, as a matter of fact, they fly in the face of it.

I admire your Faith. I will not deride you for it. I look up to people who can arm themselves with Faith, and wield it with confidence, and with no apologies.

Furthermore, you absolutely will never, ever, not in this lifetime, "convert" ANYone to your cause by trying to "prove" it to them. HOWEVER, I believe YOU COULD SUCCEED in convincing others that you are Right and they are Wrong by showing them the truly awesome power of real, unshakeable Faith.

Just throwin in my 2 cents. I hate to see you "treading water" uselessly forevermore, hustling your ass against the current so to speak, needlessly expending your energies to get absolutely nowhere.

Why don't you simply have more faith in your Faith?

[Nepenthe]

admin said:

I was about to say that this discussion is pointless, since De refuses to read or cannot understand the information provided here:

www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wells/iconob.html

But I won't, because that info was very edifying for me - thank, Luke. However, trying to argue the shifting sands of De's meandering statements is pointless. This is clear because highly qualified and eminent scholars there have utterly discredited Well's entire book, point by point and as a whole, yet she still refers to the "misleading textbooks" and the same examples (horses, peppered moths, embryo drawings, etc.) which were debunked in plain and simple terms there (OK, the moth stuff gets pretty technical, but the points are easy enough to get).

De, if you can actually read that and still cling to your "horse evolution" crap, etc., you may really have a comprehension problem. I'm not trying to shake your faith or knock your beliefs, here - believe what you want to believe. You'd be better served to just come out and say that you don't care about facts; faith trumps facts every time.

First of all, you need not insult me strato, I think I have a good grasp on the whole "reading" thing.

I have never read Well's book. As a matter of fact, up until Luke posted this site and you keep bringing up the name, I never even knew who the man was. One does not need to read his book to see the magnitude of the flaws in the textbooks concerning the teaching of evolution. I saw it immediately when reading my own textbooks. I had an extreme amount of curriosity about this and did some of my own research. NO not searches for creationists or ID proponents, or Bible sites. S research for archeology sites and evidence that IS REAL and IS OUT THERE. I did however run across a few articles concerning the stuff in the textbooks, none that surprised me all that much, they are only stating the obvious.

If you can't grasp that I strongly disagree with the supposed "scientific methods" used in textbooks to teach evolution, then that is your problem. When studying any form of origins to our past, one must use all available information out there. This is the entire concept behind my major/s. This includes Archeology, Biological, history and culture, and Linguistics. It is a multi-disciplinary study.

[Nepenthe]

Mary, you just described Behe almost to a T with this:

Believing in a "creator" and being a "creationist" are two completely different things, of course, and belief in God is entirely consistent with rejecting intelligent design. I would wager that many of these believer scientists incline toward a more deistic view of the universe, in which God got the whole ball rolling, but then basically dropped out of the picture, and no longer actively intervenes in his own creation. Evolution is not a theory about the origins of the universe, it's about explaining the diversity of life forms. The origins of the universe remain an open question, and one can accept that evolution wholly explains the diversity of life forms without rejecting a creator to explain the origins of the universe.


So why all the fuss?

[Nepenthe]

could it be this?

'Intelligent design' school board booted
Eight of nine members lose reelection bid

Wednesday, November 9, 2005; Posted: 10:48 a.m. EST (15:48 GMT)
www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/09/evolution.intelligentdesign.ap/?section=cnn_us

It is absolutely amazing that one little statement told to students before teaching evolution could cause such hysteria.

[Nepenthe]

thorny said:

mary: That was as perfect a rebuttal as I could imagine encountering here.

And strat-0 - - > Your comment about "Faith trumping facts everytime" hit the nail on the head, straight-up.

Tuatha: All I can say is, what's your problem with openly admitting that FAITH is a GOOD thing -? And why so busily attempting to "prove" the "unprovable", anyhow? I just think you'd fare better by acknowledging that what you believe is derived via Faith, not empirical evidence, and more to the point, that the very definition of your Faith is that it absolutely DOTH NOT REQUIRE such empirical proofs, as a matter of fact, they fly in the face of it.

I admire your Faith. I will not deride you for it. I look up to people who can arm themselves with Faith, and wield it with confidence, and with no apologies.

Furthermore, you absolutely will never, ever, not in this lifetime, "convert" ANYone to your cause by trying to "prove" it to them. HOWEVER, I believe YOU COULD SUCCEED in convincing others that you are Right and they are Wrong by showing them the truly awesome power of real, unshakeable Faith.

Just throwin in my 2 cents. I hate to see you "treading water" uselessly forevermore, hustling your ass against the current so to speak, needlessly expending your energies to get absolutely nowhere.

Why don't you simply have more faith in your Faith?

Actually there is a tremendous amount of REAL scientific evidence out there that doesn't disturb my faith, and quite frankly strengthens it indeed! I cannot begin to even tell you how much of the natural and Biological world adds up to what I believe. Mountains of evidence exists that lines up absolutely perfectly with the Bible. But, you won't find it on a website like so many here seem to think. (phil, Luke, Strato ect.) It has taken years of study through my mentor and various other sources to actually get a grip of it all.

Don't worry thorn, my faith is unshakable indeed.

And to think....my mentor was actually brought up briefly by someone in a Rollingstone article not very long ago. I wonder if he is aware of it, maybe I should call and tell him.

[shin]

Why would Rolling Stone do a recent article about Warren from There's Something About Mary?