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Post by Mary on Dec 23, 2005 13:48:48 GMT -5
Some key parts of that article, in case anyone can't be bothered to follow the link: "We teach about Judaism and Buddhism and Christianity as it relates to the countries across the world.
"Our local religious leaders have been very supportive of how we teach Christianity and how we introduce other faiths in the context of history."And this quote from the Thomas More Law Center, who are filing the suit (same people who defended the intelligent design statement in Dover, PA, btw): "Our Supreme Court has said that public schools cannot have children read the Bible, recite the Lord's Prayer, have a moment of silence for prayer, or display the Ten Commandments - and it is our opinion that Byron school district violated the law when it taught Islam the way it taught it." There's a serious misrepresentation of legal precedent here, and coming from a lawyer, I have to presume the misrepresentation is absolutely willful. It's only considered unconstitutional if public schools have students read the Bible for religious purposes - i.e. to endorse the Bible. It's absolutely 100% ok for students to read the Bible in a history class, an English class, or a comparative religion class. The Thomas More Law Center are a bunch of reactionary, over-defensive nuts, imho. Cheers, M |
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Post by melon1 on Dec 23, 2005 16:19:07 GMT -5
The downward spiral obviously continues. Christmas was so magical as a child. Them wuz the days.
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Post by phil on Dec 23, 2005 16:37:42 GMT -5
Yeah ! Everything was so much better in the good ol'days ... Even the future !!
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Post by someone on Dec 23, 2005 16:53:19 GMT -5
Downward spiral of what exactly? People recognizing that more than just Christmas is celebrated in this country? What would Jesus do if he saw this? He'd probably tell you that he's scared of you melon.
I work in a country club. A large Jewish population, and probably and equal amount of Christian whites and Asians. I ALWAYS say Happy Holidays, unless I know for a fact their religious affiliation. There's nothing political about that, it's just proper manners. The majority of the world is not Christian, even though the fucking missionaries you guys send all over the world are trying their hardest to change that.
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Post by rockysigman on Dec 23, 2005 17:07:25 GMT -5
Remember a few years ago when people complained that Christmas had been too commercialized? Whatever happened to that?
But now people are complaining it isn't commercial enough! Some people won't be happy until every story changes its name to "Christmastown" for the holiday or something. I don't get it.
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Post by Galactus on Dec 23, 2005 17:23:13 GMT -5
Actually, it turns out they were right. All these years I've been hearing how the commercialism of Christmas has been eroding the relgious aspects of Christmas. While it's true that 90% of shoppers out this time of year are "Christmas shopping", I wonder how many are shopping for the Christian holiday and how many are shopping for the secular consumer holiday also named Christmas? I just think it's funny that after all thes years of bitching about the marketing of Christmas now they're upset becuase stores are starting to market "holidays" instead. It's not about Jesus, it's about power and remaining the acknowledged superior religion.
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Post by Rit on Dec 23, 2005 17:42:00 GMT -5
that was wise
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Post by Nepenthe on Dec 23, 2005 18:23:22 GMT -5
I have already said that this isn't that big of a deal to me, I mean it isn't going to change how I view Christmas or what I believe. Quite frankly the cashier could tell me to have a shitty holiday and I wouldn't bat an eye.
BUT this was actually instigated by the ones that do not want Christ in Christmas. They want to take the name out of the holiday. Now logic would be that if someone said Merry Christmas it should not offend anyone any more so than if someone said Happy Holidays. This is indeed a 2 way street. There are those that are more secular or of other religions that seem to be 'offended' by the words Merry Christmas, and there are those that are offended because they are taking the name of Christ out of Christmas by saying Happy Holidays. So who should bend here? I say we let cashiers say whatever the hell they want to say. THAT is the actual legal and ethical thing to do in this case. It is called freedom of speech.
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Post by Kensterberg on Dec 23, 2005 18:38:20 GMT -5
Actually, it turns out they were right. All these years I've been hearing how the commercialism of Christmas has been eroding the relgious aspects of Christmas. While it's true that 90% of shoppers out this time of year are "Christmas shopping", I wonder how many are shopping for the Christian holiday and how many are shopping for the secular consumer holiday also named Christmas? I just think it's funny that after all thes years of bitching about the marketing of Christmas now they're upset becuase stores are starting to market "holidays" instead. It's not about Jesus, it's about power and remaining the acknowledged superior religion. Haven't had much time for posting today, but I just wanted to chime in to second this. It's not about Jesus, it's not about people trying to get rid of Christmas (still waiting for a verified example of this, till then I'm calling it an urban legend), it's about power and control. In order to keep their minions in line, the far right has to have a boogie man, something that will keep these people focussed on what "they" are up to, and how "they" are going to take away the things "we" think are important. Lose that fear, and you lose control over this block of voters, which means that a lot of people stand to lose a lot of power. Follow the money, and you'll find who is really behind this "war on Christmas." |
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Post by Rit on Dec 23, 2005 19:04:16 GMT -5
yeah. i'm with KenH on that.
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Post by rockysigman on Dec 23, 2005 20:06:59 GMT -5
BUT this was actually instigated by the ones that do not want Christ in Christmas. They want to take the name out of the holiday. Who? Who are these people you're talking about? Who wants to take Christ out of Christmas? Names please. |
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Post by phil on Dec 23, 2005 20:18:11 GMT -5
Can't name names ...
It's a conspiration !!
People could get hurt ...
BAD !!
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Post by Nepenthe on Dec 23, 2005 20:34:30 GMT -5
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Post by Nepenthe on Dec 23, 2005 20:36:07 GMT -5
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Post by Nepenthe on Dec 23, 2005 20:48:05 GMT -5
Christmas fails PC test in more public schools, An increasing number of public schools nationwide are becoming no-Christmas zones this year in an effort by school officials to accommodate different cultures and not offend non-Christians,
Washington Times, December 20, 2002
"Last week, several elementary teachers in Sacramento, Calif., said they had been banned from using the word 'Christmas' in class, and a mother in San Diego was barred from reading a Christmas story to a fourth-grade class. In New York, some school administrators asked teachers to limit holiday decorations to generic messages, such as 'Happy Holidays' or 'Season's Greetings,' and some city schools barred Nativity displays but allowed exhibition of the Jewish menorah and the Islamic star and crescent. As a result, a lawsuit has been filed. Meanwhile, music and band teachers in Maryland, Virginia and Michigan are not having students sing or play some carols, such as 'Silent Night' and 'The First Noel.' Instead, music selections are kept 'very secular' with songs such as 'Let It Snow,' 'Frosty the Snowman' and 'Jingle Bell Rock.' Critics of such school policies say they have had enough. 'We're at this point where no one wants to offend anyone, but you know what, I'm offended when teachers don't mention Christmas or pretend like it's not there,' said Karen Holgate, director of policy at the Capitol Resource Institute, a pro-family public policy center based in California. 'You will always offend someone whether you like it or not, that's just the way life is. So we need to get over this once and for all and learn to tolerate each other's differences."
Israeli Chief Rabbi Condemns Christmas Celebrations by Jews in Israel,
tbo (Tampa Bay Online), Associated Press, December 24, 2002
"Chief Rabbi Israel Meir Lau on Tuesday urged Jews in Israel not to celebrate Christmas or New Year's Day, warning that such observances threaten the identity of the Jewish state. Lau encouraged Christian Israeli Arabs, foreign workers and immigrants to mark the holidays. But he said Jewish families should not 'be swept into keeping a way of life that is not their own, while obliterating and losing their self-respect.' In recent years, small numbers of Israeli Jews have begun celebrating Christmas, putting up lights in shops and even trees in homes. The trend began with the influx of thousands of Christians - many of them married to Jews - in the early 1990s as part of a wave of immigration from the former Soviet Union. At the same time, New Year's Eve has become a major party night at Tel Aviv hotels, despite threats by local rabbis to punish the establishments by removing their approval to serve kosher food. Interest in Christmas has grown since fighting with the Palestinians broke out two years ago and Christian foreign workers replaced their Palestinian counterparts in jobs. Israel has also undergone a type of cultural globalization - expressed in a desire among many Israelis to take part in what they view as a world holiday. Such expressions grate on the nerves of many Israeli Jews, particularly Lau. 'Why should we have anything to do with Christmas or New Year's Eve, in the shade of the Christmas tree?" Lau asked in a statement issued on Christmas Eve. "We never imagined that even in our independent country of the Jewish nation, foreign cultures would threaten our identity as a people and a nation' ... According to Israeli government statistics, 142,000 Christians live in Israel, including 115,000 Christian Arabs. The figures do not include the West Bank and Gaza Strip."
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