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Post by rockkid on Apr 23, 2006 9:49:32 GMT -5
Let me rant on that (the 4 deaths) as a person living on base.
First & foremost we need to either get with it or get out.
The objective is to vague & its failing.
That said Harper has stuck a very very sour & dangerous chord (vote wise) with us. Us being DND members.
How? His new stance on not lowering the flag. All news accounts say he’s tying it in to his “we will not cut & run stance”
Well excuse me but the last time I looked that action was about respect. It has no bearing on courage or lack there of, rather it’s simply a long standing funeral tradition again about RESPECT!
Message to Mr. Harper from your military members………….. If you’re going to send us to these places …………. It’s the least you can do. GET IT!
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Post by Dr. Drum on Apr 23, 2006 20:46:55 GMT -5
Re: lowering the flags on Parliament Hill – the government claims that it was the Liberals who broke with tradition when they started the practice but I agree with you, rock. It is an appropriate mark of respect, it is the established practice now, and it should be continued. Whether it was the done thing in 1940 or 1953 is irrelevant.
Honestly, this looks like nothing more than nervousness on the government's part that the mounting casualties in Afghanistan will be to their detriment politically and therefore the less attention drawn to each occurrence, the better. I hope (and expect) that the Opposition and Canadians generally will call them on this but given Harper’s style of governing and the tone he's set so far, I’m dubious that he can be made to back down on it now that they’ve announced the new policy.
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Post by rockkid on Apr 24, 2006 9:53:20 GMT -5
Well judging from the various articles in this morn Ed Sun he’s opened a can o’ worms.
Even the daily poll on the subject is 70% in favor of lowering out of 621 respondents.
I believe it was Lew Mackenzie who also brought up your idea about Harper trying to draw attention away from the casualties, (as if he could eh).
The P.M. would do well to take heed. After all these poll voting folk are one in the same who vote in elections.
All I know is its left a huge bad taste up here. People such as I who voted for him strongly in the hope of how the DND is treated would change are feeling like its just same old same old.
Supposedly some of the provincial Tories are going to go against him on this; I hope that proves to be the case.
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Post by rockkid on Apr 25, 2006 9:07:39 GMT -5
This letter is going out to the PM's office this morn & to every paper I can flood it with in Canada
Dear Sir:
I sit here writing to you from CFB 4 Wing Cold Lake to express my distress at your decision not to lower the flag when we have casualties.
This is not the time to stand on tradition.
Lowering the flag has no relation to courage as applied to our mission in Afghanistan.
It is however directly related to showing respect not only to those lost but even more importantly to the family members left behind.
As to the latest decision to attempt to hide, as it were, the repatriation of the fallen to our soil I have this to say.
Firstly this is Canada & not a totalitarian state which it certainly seems you are trying to make it.
Secondly in this day & age of electronic communications you are not hiding a single thing.
You’ve never heard the expression “they told two friends & so on & so on".
The simple reality is you won’t be protecting the Canadian public one iota.
One of the main reasons I voted for you was the faint hope that our once proud DND would cease under your leadership to be treated, well to put it bluntly, like crap.
That faint hope is fast dimming.
I ask sir that you rethink your stance & remember your constituents.
It is far from un manly to admit error.
Today it is my intent to place a flag at half mast on my PMQ lawn & to be honest neither rain, snow, you or my base commander is going to stop me.
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Post by phil on Apr 25, 2006 9:17:19 GMT -5
Ottawa fails fallen soldiers, critics say
Media will not be allowed on military base to cover return home of soldiers' bodies
BILL CURRY
From Tuesday's Globe and Mail
OTTAWA — The media will be banned from CFB Trenton today when the bodies of four Canadian soldiers killed over the weekend in Afghanistan return home.
The decision to mirror a practice that is controversial in the United States follows an announcement on Sunday that the flag on the Peace Tower will not be flown at half-mast to mark the deaths.
The two events have some in opposition accusing the Conservative government of a deliberate attempt to limit public knowledge of the human cost of Canada's mission in Afghanistan.
Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor issued a statement yesterday confirming the change, saying the arrival of the soldiers' bodies is a private event for the grieving families.
The minister noted that Canadian media in Afghanistan were allowed to cover a ceremony yesterday in which the soldiers' coffins were loaded onto a military plane.
"I have made the most appropriate decision during this emotional time for the families, that the media will not be present [today]," said a defence official who read the statement from the minister.
"There is a time to mourn and we want to respect the privacy needs of the grieving families. The repatriation of our fallen soldiers back to Canada is a private and solemn event between the families and the Canadian Forces."
A spokesman for the minister confirmed that the media ban will also apply in any future deaths of soldiers.
Liberal defence critic Ujjal Dosanjh called the media ban "absolutely un-Canadian" and "absolutely manipulative."
"It's extremely disturbing that this government would take a page out of [U.S. President George] Bush's modus operandi," Mr. Dosanjh said.
The Liberal MP said the media ban, coupled with the new flag policy, shows the Conservatives are trying to play down negative images of war so as not to lose public support.
"For the life of me, I can't imagine any other reason," he said.
The debate over the flag will take a deeply personal turn this afternoon when the Liberals read into the parliamentary record a letter sent more than two weeks ago by Lincoln Dinning calling for the flag on the Peace Tower to fly at half-mast to honour soldiers who die in the line of duty.
Mr. Dinning's son, Corporal Matthew Dinning, was one of four soldiers killed on Saturday in a roadside explosion.
The other soldiers were Bombardier Myles Mansell, Corporal Randy Payne and Lieutenant William Turner.
Liberal MP Paul Steckle received the letter, and said his party intends to move a motion that would honour the father's wishes regarding the flag.
Mr. O'Connor explained over the weekend that the government will lower the flag on the Peace Tower for Remembrance Day, but individual deaths will be honoured with half-mast flags at defence headquarters and within the service of the deceased, be it navy, army or air force.
Yesterday, the government of Alberta and Toronto City Hall both lowered their flags in honour of the soldiers.
The minister argued that the federal government is returning to an earlier practice and blamed the previous Liberal government for breaking with that tradition in favour of a policy that "unfairly distinguished some of those who died in Afghanistan from those who have died in current and previous operations."
However, not only the Liberals supported lowering the Peace Tower flag to honour previous military deaths.
On Oct. 7, 2004, after submariner Lieutenant Chris Saunders died in a fire on HMCS Chicoutimi, Conservative MP James Moore put forward a motion calling for flags on all government buildings to be flown at half-mast.
The motion was passed unanimously.
Veterans groups and the Bloc Québécois support the Conservative government's position yesterday not to fly the Peace Tower flag at half-mast when soldiers die.
New Democrat MP Peter Stoffer criticized Mr. O'Connor for chastising others when his party also pushed for the Peace Tower flag to be lowered.
"It's Mr. O'Connor not being briefed or not understanding the depth of what he is saying. The reality is, it was the Conservatives under James Moore," he said. "We have four soldiers who were killed and [people] don't want to see politicians carping over this issue. It should just be a matter of fact and get it done."
South of the border, U.S. President George W. Bush invoked the ban on media coverage of returning coffins in 2003 on the eve of the invasion of Iraq.
Since then, a few photos have emerged in the U.S. media through access-to-information requests, but the dead soldiers remain unidentified.
According to media reports, the U.S. ban was inspired by current Vice-President Dick Cheney in 1991 when he was defence secretary to former president George H.W. Bush. A ban was invoked at that time after U.S. television networks showed split-screen images of the president and returning coffins.
The ban was eased under Bill Clinton's administration and for the first two years of George W. Bush's administration.
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Post by rockkid on Apr 25, 2006 10:16:19 GMT -5
I've just first sent a copy to every single current member of the Con party.
I changed it to an open letter. Holy shit there's alot of them!!!
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Post by rockkid on Apr 25, 2006 10:18:04 GMT -5
Yeah Phil we are pretty pissed on the Wing.
They want to sweep our guys under the rug or what???!
Drum is going to love this........................ I'm having big regrets I voted for this guy.
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Post by Kensterberg on Apr 25, 2006 10:24:21 GMT -5
Hey Rockkid, great letter. I hope that you get a response from some of these guys trying to justify this policy. It would be interesting to see what they say.
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Post by phil on Apr 25, 2006 10:25:15 GMT -5
Everything George the Second's administration
have done wrong in the War(s)
the Reform in Disguise will try to emulate and surpass ...
The writing was on the wall !!
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Post by rockkid on Apr 25, 2006 10:40:04 GMT -5
On your end Drum keep an eye on the Cron Herald
Now let's hit Quebec amonst others Go rk Go!!!
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Post by rockkid on Apr 25, 2006 10:44:25 GMT -5
Montreal Gaz phil
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Post by rockkid on Apr 25, 2006 10:46:47 GMT -5
Okay I’m done I got west coast, east coast & point in between.
My contracts start tomorrow plus I’ve gotta go round up a flag & pole now.
Hope this doesn't cause flak at the other half’s work but sigh to late now.
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Post by Dr. Drum on Apr 25, 2006 11:06:46 GMT -5
I'll definitely keep an eye out for your letter in the Herald, rockkid.
BTW, just got off the phone with home and I guess Gordon O’Connor got nailed in an interview on Newsworld a few minutes ago over banning the media from Trenton. The government’s line, of course, is that not allowing the media in respects the privacy of the family. Apparently, however, at least one of the families of one of the soldiers killed on the weekend has said that no one consulted them on any of this and furthermore, that they consider the national media coverage that we’ve had of these unfortunate events up till now to be, itself, a mark of the nation's respect. In the end of it all I guess O’Connor was blunt enough to admit that it doesn’t matter what the families think, the government has now set the policy, and that’s the end of it as far as they’re concerned. Amazing!
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Post by rockkid on Apr 25, 2006 14:36:49 GMT -5
Well I did it……….. $99.00 flag pole kit
$29.99 flag all @ Canadian Tire.
Fucking Harper….priceless.
It’s getting installed after 4 p.m. & the local press is coming @ 4:30.
I’ll be sure to scan & post.
PS won't appear in our local rag till next Tue
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Post by phil on Apr 25, 2006 14:39:44 GMT -5
Geez Kid ...
You're certainly taking this to heart ...
Good for you !!
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