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Post by Kensterberg on Jun 22, 2006 18:52:53 GMT -5
Anyway, apropos of the actual subject of this board, I'm sure most people already know this, but there is now a temporary moratorium on the enforcement of the South Dakota abortion ban, pending a statewide referendum on the law in November. The results of this vote are going to be watched really closely by everyone with a stake in the abortion debate - for principled pro-lifers who really are opposed to abortion in all circumstances, it might be a very unpleasant wake-up call that even the most conservative self-identified pro-lifers in the country wil not endorse such an extreme ban with no exceptions for rape, incest, or the health of the mother. Which will put them in an awkward spot, especially if Roe is eventually overturned - either standing on principle and continuing to insist upon an across-the-board ban, which could hurt them a great deal politically, and would likely fail as policy, or being more open to compromise, and to more incremental approaches, which look from a truly principled standpoint like a morally heinous devil's bargain. As the New Yorker pointed out, if abortion really is morally akin to slavery, then allowing exceptions to an all-out ban would be like banning slavery except for people who reeeeeeally need slaves. It just seems morally preposterous. So what's a good pro-life legislator to do, after South Dakota, after Roe, after abortion is no longer just a talking point but a real policy issue? It's gonna be tough. chrisfan and I talked about this earlier on this thread, but I'm becoming more and more convinced that the right has a great deal more to lose from Roe getting overturned than the left. That doesn't mean I welcome its overturning - I really don't think the potential cost is worth paying - but it might be a case where pro-life Republicans discover that the worst gift of all is getting exactly what they wished for. Cheers, MI've read a few on the ground kind of articles out of SD, and it really looks like the average person in the street is deciding that this law just goes too far. It will be interesting to see how the state's legislators react if/when this law is thrown out. |
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 22, 2006 18:59:12 GMT -5
What exactly is "actual photage"? It's like actual footage, but only cooler... Mary and Ken, as Liberal Democrats, do follow the party line on every poltical issue? Or do you review the facts with an open-mind and decide independently? If so, could you give me an example of an issue where you break with the party line? |
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Post by shin on Jun 22, 2006 19:01:03 GMT -5
Shut the fuck up.
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Post by rockysigman on Jun 22, 2006 19:09:35 GMT -5
What exactly is "actual photage"? It's like actual footage, but only cooler... Mary and Ken, as Liberal Democrats, do follow the party line on every poltical issue? Or do you review the facts with an open-mind and decide independently? If so, could you give me an example of an issue where you break with the party line? Yeah, you obviously don't pay any attention. I think Mary is more outspoken against the Democratic party than most Republicans. Also, you have the reading comprehension skills of a chimp. |
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 22, 2006 19:18:25 GMT -5
It's like actual footage, but only cooler... Mary and Ken, as Liberal Democrats, do follow the party line on every poltical issue? Or do you review the facts with an open-mind and decide independently? If so, could you give me an example of an issue where you break with the party line? Yeah, you obviously don't pay any attention. I think Mary is more outspoken against the Democratic party than most Republicans. Also, you have the reading comprehension skills of a chimp. Rocky, I've only been here like two weeks. I dont read all threads, so I dont know all of Mary's views. WHICH IS WHY I ASKED HER (not you) whether she stuck to the liberal view or was an independent thinker. I'm not saying she is one or the other. I am simply asking. Do you understand the difference between asking and declaring? Because right now you are the one whose reading comprehension seems comparable to a chimp ("Right turn Clyde")... |
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Post by Kensterberg on Jun 22, 2006 19:20:51 GMT -5
Are you kidding? I just posted two examples a couple of days back while talking with Chrisfan ... here on this very board, I believe ... Schools their children attend, gun ownership ... I'm gonna break with orthodoxy here ... I think that we liberals should take a looser position on gun control. I don't have a problem with Bubba (or anyone else) owning a shotgun, or other such appropriate weapon for hunting, home protection, etc. I don't think any reasonable reading of the 2nd Amendment gives people an absolute right to own AK-47s or large caliber hand guns, and I think we could more effectively enforce reasonable limitations on gun ownership if we embraced this basic right. Similarly, I don't think most liberals want to deny anyone the choice to go to a good school. Rather, they want assurances that everyone can attend a quality and fundementally fair school. So this means that you can choose to send your child to any school you want, but don't expect to get government subsidies for it -- which means if you send little Johnny to a public school in another district, you'll need to pick up the costs associated with it. BTW, liberals are now the ones who want to keep the decisions about school matters on a more local level, and it's "conservatives" who want to deal with education on a national level. (Something which I just do not understand what so ever). For a guy who misses nothing and understands everything, you seem to let a lot get by you without comprehending it. |
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Post by rockysigman on Jun 22, 2006 19:23:12 GMT -5
Yeah, you obviously don't pay any attention. I think Mary is more outspoken against the Democratic party than most Republicans. Also, you have the reading comprehension skills of a chimp. Rocky, I've only been here like two weeks. I dont read all threads, so I dont know all of Mary's views. WHICH IS WHY I ASKED HER (not you) whether she stuck to the liberal view or was an independent thinker. I'm not saying she is one or the other. I am simply asking. Do you understand the difference between asking and declaring? Because right now you are the one whose reading comprehension seems comparable to a chimp ("Right turn Clyde")... That was clearly one of those questions where the asker thought he knew the answer already. And my comment about your reading comprehension skills had more to do with every single post you've made on this board than that one specific post. |
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Post by Kensterberg on Jun 22, 2006 19:27:46 GMT -5
And I'm sure you saw that post of mine, PEW, because it followed one of yours, and was separated by only two posts from another of your little pearls of ... whatever the hell they are.
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Post by strat-0 on Jun 22, 2006 19:36:09 GMT -5
So the board admin acknowledges the guy is a troll? Well, as I said before, what constitutes being a "troll" can be rather subjective. I think many of us here have displayed at least some type of troll-like behavior at some time or another (some more than others!) That said, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... PEW has exhibited many classic troll behaviors and tactics. On the other hand, we enjoy very broad latitudes here; all members are valued, and bannings are taken seriously and only done after several warnings, much consideration, and usually after many complaints on the boards and by PMs. If said "troll" provides more amusement than disruption, and doesn't break established rules too badly, I don't see the harm. I think some here haven't had so much fun since Tuatha's evolution thread (not that she is a troll - only her boyfriend is). Stick around at your pleasure, Paul, but be advised that after years of posting at RS.com and other message boards, most of the membership here are quite savvy to all the ways of trolls. The ones that don't already view you as a baffoon are coming to that conclusion quickly. Just be yourself, and not a "troll." Below are two links to some very good troll info: the first is from Wikipedia. It is rather troll-sympathetic -- I believe because the article itself is such a troll magnet that it has been toned down to the point of being a white flag, and trolls of course can edit it at whim. Still good info. PEW, please read this article and see if you can find yourself in there. I did, several times. Others will too. The other link is to a pretty good article from the author you cited. I found the link at the site that banned you. This info might be edifying to some of our members. It also illuminates some of the difficulties facing moderators and administrators in dealing with trolls and when members "feed the trolls." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_trollmembers.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm |
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Post by Mary on Jun 22, 2006 20:03:02 GMT -5
fwiw, while I'm not really sure about the technicalities of defining a "troll", I can't begin to imagine any legitimate reason for banning PEW from this site. Personally, I find him kind of entertaining, although occasionally talking to him is like smashing my head against a wall repeatedly.
Anyhow....
I'm not really sure where you got it into your head that I'm a "Liberal Democrat" to begin with, but, as Rocky says, I most certainly do NOT identify with the Democratic Party. From my perspective, this whole country's ideological spectrum is shifted so far to the right that there's no meaningful left in national politics. I'm a leftist, not a liberal. As such I'm almost completely off the American political map.
I also find the presumptions behind this question to be wrong. First of all, I don't know what "the party line" is since there is a great deal of internal disagreement amongst liberals, Democrats, and leftists in this country, so it would be impossible to follow any one party line. Second, I completely reject the notion that just because your political positions don't fall on both sides of some arbitrarily defined "center" that you are therefore not an "independent" thinker. The question is why you take the political positions you do, not where those positions fall on some map of all possible ideologies. Provided you have thought through the principles underlying each issue, and have some philosophical grounding for your position, then you're an independent thinker, even if each and every one of your positions happens to dovetail with the official platform of the Democratic (or Republican) Party.
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 22, 2006 20:03:16 GMT -5
That was clearly one of those questions where the asker thought he knew the answer already. No, it wasnt. You cant read my mind, dont pretend that you can. Especailly on a messge board, its a ridiculas assumption. Are you kidding? I just posted two examples a couple of days back while talking with Chrisfan ... here on this very board, I believe ... I'm gonna break with orthodoxy here ... I think that we liberals should take a looser position on gun control. I don't have a problem with Bubba (or anyone else) owning a shotgun, or other such appropriate weapon for hunting, home protection, etc. I don't think any reasonable reading of the 2nd Amendment gives people an absolute right to own AK-47s or large caliber hand guns, and I think we could more effectively enforce reasonable limitations on gun ownership if we embraced this basic right. Similarly, I don't think most liberals want to deny anyone the choice to go to a good school. Rather, they want assurances that everyone can attend a quality and fundementally fair school. So this means that you can choose to send your child to any school you want, but don't expect to get government subsidies for it -- which means if you send little Johnny to a public school in another district, you'll need to pick up the costs associated with it. BTW, liberals are now the ones who want to keep the decisions about school matters on a more local level, and it's "conservatives" who want to deal with education on a national level. (Something which I just do not understand what so ever). For a guy who misses nothing and understands everything, you seem to let a lot get by you without comprehending it. No, i comprehended it--just forgot it. |
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Post by Kensterberg on Jun 22, 2006 20:06:40 GMT -5
fwiw, while I'm not really sure about the technicalities of defining a "troll", I can't begin to imagine any legitimate reason for banning PEW from this site. Personally, I find him kind of entertaining, although occasionally talking to him is like smashing my head against a wall repeatedly. Anyhow.... I'm not really sure where you got it into your head that I'm a "Liberal Democrat" to begin with, but, as Rocky says, I most certainly do NOT identify with the Democratic Party. From my perspective, this whole country's ideological spectrum is shifted so far to the right that there's no meaningful left in national politics. I'm a leftist, not a liberal. As such I'm almost completely off the American political map. I also find the presumptions behind this question to be wrong. First of all, I don't know what "the party line" is since there is a great deal of internal disagreement amongst liberals, Democrats, and leftists in this country, so it would be impossible to follow any one party line. Second, I completely reject the notion that just because your political positions don't fall on both sides of some arbitrarily defined "center" that you are therefore not an "independent" thinker. The question is why you take the political positions you do, not where those positions fall on some map of all possible ideologies. Provided you have thought through the principles underlying each issue, and have some philosophical grounding for your position, then you're an independent thinker, even if each and every one of your positions happens to dovetail with the official platform of the Democratic (or Republican) Party. Further proof that Mary = Best. Political. Poster. Ever. I'm gonna shut down my practice, move to Memphis, and audit Mary's classes. I'll just sit in the back in a unibomber hoodie, recording the whole thing. Well, no ... if I went to Memphis, I'd be too busy hitting blues clubs and eating bar-b-que to make it to classes. Yeah, I'd probably die of a heart attack, but it doesn't sound like a bad way to go. |
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Post by Mary on Jun 22, 2006 20:16:39 GMT -5
You'd be highly disappointed, Ken. I have to teach con law in the fall.... civil rights and liberties...I just finished drafting the syllabus this afternoon, and I'm kinda freaked out, because I put all these freedom of religion cases on the syllabus...
...none of which I've ever read.
Haha. What a sham this whole academic racket is...
Basically the class is a pretty in-depth look at the equal protection and due process clauses of the 14th amendment (except I'm shocked and really irritated that the textbook I ordered doesn't include Loving v. Virginia or Washington v. Davis - both of which I think are totally essential to racial classification cases.... so I gutted the original plan, hrmph) and then a much more quick and scattershot tour of the first amendment, particularly freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Of course one could do an entire class on any one of those topics so it's pretty selective what we cover.... and I'm still having a tough time deciding whether or not to include libel cases in the free speech part of the class. I'm leaning toward no, and just doing a more in-depth look at political speech and obscenity & pornography.
Ummm, not that anyone asked.
The other class I'm teaching is a graduate seminar in political theory, which I can do on whatever I want, so I'm gonna do "Enlightenment and its Discontents" which is obviously inspired by my dissertation.
ummmm.... we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming....
Cheers,
M
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Post by Mary on Jun 22, 2006 20:22:50 GMT -5
quick, someone say or do something entertaining. i'm waiting for my friend to come over with a new microwave. i'm bored.
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Post by sisyphus on Jun 22, 2006 20:32:25 GMT -5
so mary, i dunno if i've missed it before, but what did you just earn your master's degree in?
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