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Post by limitdeditionlayla on May 25, 2006 2:00:32 GMT -5
Theres a theory within social psychology dealing with whats known as "diffusion of responsibility" & its one of the more unappealing aspects of human nature, consistently repeated.
The best example (& most well-known) is of an American nurse, Kitty Genovese, who was stabbed to death in the 60s outside her home in NYC. She was stabbed repeatedly & her attacker attempted to rape her, in the space of about 30mins, ALL within HEARING distance of the people who lived around her.
There were witnesses to parts of her murder, and many neighbours heard her screaming at several intervals. Some of them yelled at the attacker, but calls were onyl placed to police later during the time span of the attack.
Its not because her neighbours were heartless bastards. Its just b/c we find ti easier to not be involved, & its very convenient to assume that someone else is going to do it, thus removing you of any responsibility.
I can see that bystander effect happening as people are climbing up a high-altitude, not really sure if someone lying benaeth a rock is actually alive, but knowing that many people climb Everest at the one time.
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Post by sisyphus on May 25, 2006 5:59:10 GMT -5
Theres a theory within social psychology dealing with whats known as "diffusion of responsibility" & its one of the more unappealing aspects of human nature, consistently repeated. The best example (& most well-known) is of an American nurse, Kitty Genovese, who was stabbed to death in the 60s outside her home in NYC. She was stabbed repeatedly & her attacker attempted to rape her, in the space of about 30mins, ALL within HEARING distance of the people who lived around her. There were witnesses to parts of her murder, and many neighbours heard her screaming at several intervals. Some of them yelled at the attacker, but calls were onyl placed to police later during the time span of the attack. Its not because her neighbours were heartless bastards. Its just b/c we find ti easier to not be involved, & its very convenient to assume that someone else is going to do it, thus removing you of any responsibility. I can see that bystander effect happening as people are climbing up a high-altitude, not really sure if someone lying benaeth a rock is actually alive, but knowing that many people climb Everest at the one time. very good point. i've heard a similar story that takes place in NY when learning about this concept, diffusion of responsibility. how very realavant... right of you to point it out... i wonder how we could apply this information to the seemingly crumbling political arena in our respective countries...or, well, let's just face it...the usa. i guess it's all about finding the right balance between localization of power and globalization of information... i dunno. i'm very tire.d. |
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Post by sisyphus on May 25, 2006 6:08:17 GMT -5
So the question goes: would you have saved James Sharp even though by the tale of Inglis he was close to death anyway and he would be a drain on your own limited oxygen supply?
Regardless of everything, the thought of the dying climber watching helplessly 40 climbers pass by and leaving him to die is haunting.
i don't know enough about these sorts of climbs, so my answer is going to be a bit short and naive. i would stay behind, and seek to help the man get back to a lower altitude where the oxygen tanks were not requisite. to me, people are the most important. (obviously, though, such priorities might not be in line with the type who would devote his/her life to this sort of thing...) still, it really makes you question the value of individual human life, and wonder about the meaning found (or not found) by those who try to defy/soar beyond the day to day drone of our comparitively safer modes of living.
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Post by sisyphus on May 25, 2006 6:13:37 GMT -5
i got this from thorn's beloved john shirley board:
If you eliminate present individuality as a thing that can survive death, and identify one's self as just perception without memory or personality, then there's no death, only transformation and a re-immersion of point of view into the great sea of consciousness. But for most people this is cold comfort, because they see themselves as being their memories and personality, that is where their sense of selfhood is invested, so when they contemplate losing that they feel that death is very real indeed. Some say that individuality can survive death--who knows? I haven't died (that I recall) and cannot report on what if anything happens after. I am merely convinced that the root of perception is itself an extension of something that is a permanent part of the universe as a whole.
i tend to lean this way in my own thought, yet, i would still choose to help the dying man rather than reach the top. although i can't save the whole world from pain/death, i still feel that if i'm in such close proximity to it, i am responsible for doing my part to assuage it... it sound's hippie-ish, but i don't want to send bad karma into the psychic ether... and i think i would re-learn something from it too: that life is about people and relationships....not abstract achievements and ends...it's about the substance, not the sum.
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Post by Rit on May 25, 2006 7:39:34 GMT -5
i'm with you on that one, Sis.
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Post by sisyphus on May 25, 2006 14:54:58 GMT -5
that's nice to hear!
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Post by kmc on May 26, 2006 7:24:51 GMT -5
I'd actually be interested is someone's rationale in picking to finish the climb versus helping the potentially already dead climber.
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Post by rockysigman on May 26, 2006 7:31:51 GMT -5
It's totally inexcuseable. Yeah, not making it to the top would be disappointing, but there's always the possibility of giving it another shot somewhere down the road. There's no second chance to save that guy's life. That's completely heartless.
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Post by kmc on May 26, 2006 9:04:13 GMT -5
Of course. But hey, I am open to hear a counter-argument.
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Post by luke on May 26, 2006 9:32:36 GMT -5
You can analyze the complexities of the human psyche all you want, but it boils down to anyone who just ignored that guy is a total fag.
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on May 26, 2006 10:31:35 GMT -5
Hey Sis: Nice Catpower avatar! I know this isn't the appropriate board to say that, but I had to make mention of it.
Question: Does it have Fangs?
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Post by Dr. Drum on May 26, 2006 10:38:42 GMT -5
It's totally inexcuseable. Yeah, not making it to the top would be disappointing, but there's always the possibility of giving it another shot somewhere down the road. There's no second chance to save that guy's life. That's completely heartless. I would concur. Interesting responses to my original post on this board from Ken and strat-0... |
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Post by sisyphus on May 26, 2006 12:06:48 GMT -5
thanks, skvor!
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Post by kmc on May 26, 2006 14:05:01 GMT -5
Drum, how do you feel with regards to the first question?
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Post by strat-0 on May 26, 2006 21:01:33 GMT -5
I'd rather be able to say, "I didn't make it to the summit, but I helped save a guy's life," than to say, "I made the summit, and on the way I passed a guy lying in the snow. We left him there to die. Oh, and he was a double amputee." I mean, it would still make a great story to tell your friends and family, write an article about, etc, that you carted this guy down the mountain, selflessly giving up your chance to reach the summit.
And about that, the guy had to have some kind of obbsessive death wish. For a double amputee (who lost his legs on a climb) to try to climb Everest alone is sucide.
Speaking of Olympus Mons (the largest mountain/volcano in the solar system) I wonder who will be first to climb it.
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