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Post by rockysigman on Jul 14, 2006 18:09:19 GMT -5
Man, this shit is about to get fucked up. I am royally scared for one. Two, I think they are both fucking insane. I'm not usually one for this kind of talk but I think we're looking at the last days of civilization. I agree. I mean, these two sides have been after each other forever, but this looks like it could be escalating to a whole new level. This is really scary shit. World war is coming. |
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Post by kmc on Jul 14, 2006 18:15:53 GMT -5
I wonder who'll have better coverage of World War III, CNN or Fox News? Because I don't intend to lift one ass cheek off my couch to help either side do anything in this.
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Post by maarts on Jul 14, 2006 18:26:35 GMT -5
So what do we want to do here? Talk serious or crack jokes? All's good, just don't want to waste my time here if the general intent is to bullshit about.
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Post by luke on Jul 14, 2006 18:35:34 GMT -5
I'm in the World War III camp. I really think things are spiralling way, way out of control right now, and it floors me when I read the absolutely moronic things coming out of the mouths of the men running the world regarding this situation.
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Post by kmc on Jul 14, 2006 19:35:46 GMT -5
Democracy is running free in the Middle East right now.
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Post by Mary on Jul 14, 2006 19:41:51 GMT -5
What I want to know is what the FUCK Israel is thinking. I've always been more sympathetic to Israel than many of my peers on the left, and I've often gotten into trouble either for sharply criticizing particular Palestinian actions or expecting more of a compromise from the Palestinian side than most of my friends think is reasonable to expect.
But right now, Israel's actions against Lebanon just seem completely insane. You can't hold Lebanon as a whole responsible for the actions of Hezbollah. That's fucking nuts. And with the nutjobs in charge of Iran right now...I don't even want to imagine the potential fallout. And I'm ripshit pissed (although not surprised) that our President straight-up refuses to call for a cease-fire, and merely asks Israel to limit damage against "civilians" - pleeeeeeeeeease.
I'm so upset - at Israel especially - I can't even articulate all the reasons for my anger. I'm basically speechless....
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Post by maarts on Jul 14, 2006 20:03:17 GMT -5
Yeah, this echoes my sentiments exactly. This really undoes the pressure Hamas was feeling in trying to run a Palestinian state without any help and completely isolated by their direct neighbours.
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Post by Mary on Jul 14, 2006 21:14:06 GMT -5
I wanted to know what die-hard pro-Israel folks had to say about this. I found this quote from a typically over-the-top and ideologically off-the-wall David Horowitz article, which I thought was really unintentionally revealing:
The war reveals the impossibility of a Palestinian state and the necessity of a civilized occupying force in a region that is populated by a people who have been terminally brainwashed into an ideology of hate, which makes their self-government a crime waiting to happen.
Note what Horowitz is saying here: democracy for the Palestinians - and more broadly for many in the Middle East, since he makes virtually no distinction - is basically criminal. Note how this puts Horowitz at odds with the official rhetoric of those who are ostensibly his pols - so much for freedom and democracy in the Middle East. So much for Bush's noble vision of democracy as the new manifest destiny. And what are we to think about this as it relates to Iraq - Iraq, where the Shi'a are a majority, where America's official policy is clearly to empower this majority rather than the formerly empowered Sunnis. What if Iraq's Shi'a feel solidarity with Lebanon's Shi'a (Hezbollah being a Shiite organization) - what does that mean for democracy in Iraq, from Horowitz's standpoint?
His offhand statement really reveals what many of us have always suspected was lurking behind the rhetoric about freedom and democracy - pure imperialism. "Civilized occupation" - what is that, the new white mans burden?? How far does the imperative of civilized occupation spread - surely not just the Palestinians, given that Israel is presently attacking Lebanon for actions of Hezbollah, a group supported by Iran and Syria? Perhaps we need a civilized occupation of all these countries? Perhaps we need a civilized occupation of the entire Middle East? Where does this logic run out?
It's all very, very scary.
M
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Post by shin on Jul 14, 2006 21:34:17 GMT -5
His offhand statement really reveals what many of us have always suspected was lurking behind the rhetoric about freedom and democracy - pure imperialism.
Hate to say I told you so...
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Post by rockysigman on Jul 14, 2006 21:54:17 GMT -5
You do?
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Post by shin on Jul 14, 2006 22:18:47 GMT -5
I'm dismayed to have had to have told you so.
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Post by phil on Jul 14, 2006 22:43:53 GMT -5
So what do we want to do here? Talk serious or crack jokes? All's good, just don't want to waste my time here if the general intent is to bullshit about. As far as I'm concerned, I'm done discussing the Middle-East ! They can all kill each others to the last and let their respective gods sort the lot ! It will never end ! OH ! And Horowitz should mate with Ann Coulter and raised together the next Hitler/Staline/Mussolini !! |
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Post by phil on Jul 14, 2006 22:47:04 GMT -5
Things were so much easier in the "Good Ol'Days"
where you could just invaded any foreign land
and kill, deport or enslaved those who were there before you !!
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Post by luke on Jul 14, 2006 23:19:17 GMT -5
Phil...were I you...I'd be terrified for my children. It's not just the Middle East anymore. I feel sort of like drunk guy with the "The End is Nigh!" sign, but seriously. I can't even see Switzerland or...er...Quebec staying out of this one. Third time's the charm, buddy.
My question at this point is that if humanity survives this, when will history mark the beginning of WWIII? Will it be 9/11? Iraqi invasion? The kidnapping and Israeli retaliation? A large part of me thinks Franz Ferdinand has already happened. In fact, at this point, it seems like an issue of "did the Second-Sino Japanese War start it or was it the Polish Invasion?"
Yeah, I sound like a loon. But I think we're all fucked.
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Post by phil on Jul 15, 2006 0:04:08 GMT -5
They will have to send the Canadian Army IN Québec
on the way to the Middle-East
before any of my sons get to fight in any stupid war
to see which god is the Big Cheese !
Fuck this shit !
I'm much more worried about Mother Nature though ...
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