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Post by RocDoc on Aug 12, 2006 14:54:34 GMT -5
Wonder away...the answer to that (probably ultra-sarcastic...and rhetorical) question has to be 'No fucking way'....but then you pressed 'post reply'.
They (and PM Blair) thought they were doing it to curtail Weapons Of Mass Destruction being produced and peddled from there....and the after-effects (other than deposing Sodom) be damned unfortunately, because the thought was that disarming Iraq was of the utmost. While the for-shit self-interested UN, essentially and France and Russia, gave us (and Mr Blair) the finger.
But nothing else makes sense as these two politicians (while granting that Blair is the far superior 'politician') made such a career-killing decision to invade based on irredeemably bad intelligence gathering, which they had been convinced to believe.
Which is NOT to say that some of GWB's 'Hawks' didn't have better knowledge of the true situation than they let on....
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Post by Galactus on Aug 12, 2006 15:02:28 GMT -5
Which they convinced themselves to believe...and the question is did they think Iraq would would be a "cakewalk", seeing as we'd already kicked their ass once, thereby showing those darned terrorists we're not to be messed with? I'm not sure I buy into sinister motives but I do beleive in stupidity and a grand underestimation of what they were actually starting.
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Post by shin on Aug 12, 2006 18:14:37 GMT -5
Mr Rumsfeld is in Europe to try to gain backing for possible military action against Iraq.
"It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months," he said, speaking at the American air base at Aviano, in northern Italy. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2738089.stmThe answer is "Yes fucking way".
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Post by Mary on Aug 12, 2006 19:18:51 GMT -5
At this point in time, rocdoc, there is simply piles and piles and piles and piles of evidence that the Bush administration (and the Blair administration) selectively interprted the intelligence on Iraq to create the most apocalyptic vision possible. It is no longer plausible to insist that the administration was just a victim of misleading intelligence - they played a role in producing that misleading intelligence.
They may well have believed the most apocalyptic vision was the correct one - but their reasons for believing that were flimsy as shit, and once they believed it, they refused to listen to all contradictory evidence. For this they deserve all the scorn and blame that they're receiving. Whether it was honest or cynical is beside the point - even if it was entirely honest, it was a display of total incompetence for which they should all lose their jobs.
M
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Post by kmc on Aug 12, 2006 19:42:56 GMT -5
Not just that, RocDoc, but it is certainly bizarre to insist that Bush and Blair pursued the Iraqi invasion at great political peril. That may well be said of Blair, but Bush's approval ratings before and during the initial stages of the campaign certainly prove otherwise. I dare say, had the administration not done such a terrible job in execution, the President and his cronies might still be sitting pretty at near 60 percent approval.
You may believe the best in the President. But we should certainly expect our leadership to be more competent than it has been.
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Post by Galactus on Aug 12, 2006 19:51:05 GMT -5
I just can't understand how anyone could still feel that Team Bush was simply a victim of bad intelligence and are now just doing their best to make up for it. It doesn't make sense a fella as smart as rocdoc could buy that either. Even if you support the current adminstration, even if you're sympathic to the war you still have to admit they've screwed the pooch pretty hard on several occations and there's just no other explaination except that they are not giving proper wieght to any view outside of the scenario they've decided on.
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Post by kmc on Aug 12, 2006 19:59:10 GMT -5
Well, back to writing comics I go...
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Post by RocDoc on Aug 12, 2006 22:34:20 GMT -5
Kenny, I sell you that 'komicks' shit only when you make the very typical 'whatevah' empty fucking smartass comment...there was actually 'content' there. That is IF you're content to believe that Bush & Co thought that those approval ratings were simply going to continue skyward while it became obvious here was no exit strategy in the very real event of disastrous rebellion to the U.S.'s presence in that fucking shithole.
Whether it was honest or cynical is beside the point - even if it was entirely honest, it was a display of total incompetence for which they should all lose their jobs.
...even if you're sympathic to the war you still have to admit they've screwed the pooch pretty hard on several occations ...
WTFuck kind of stupid distortion of my hopes and dreams here are you continuing to believe?
Yes!
Yes!
And....
YES!
...and DED, stop sarcastically pretending to give me any sort of credit for any intelligence here, alright? When you obviously are convinced that here's no reason to believe such BULLshit as that. Be secure in the fact that you're way smarter, eh?
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Post by RocDoc on Aug 12, 2006 22:58:50 GMT -5
At this point in time, rocdoc, there is simply piles and piles and piles and piles of evidence that the Bush administration (and the Blair administration) selectively interprted the intelligence on Iraq to create the most apocalyptic vision possible.
Same as there SHOULD have been a far more apocalyptic vison of 10-20 Arabs who were enrolled at various flight schools, uninterested in landing their 747 models...someone needed to be fucking shouting 'Danger danger Dr Smith!' before 9 / 11, and when we MOST needed it, it did NOT happen.
And YES, I know that there WERE a scant few who said 'Hey!' and shouted it....but no-one else bought the correct degree of the term 'apocalyptic' to prevent it.
It sounded like an absurd possibility then....now for Sodom to be doing what the intel said. THAT was barely ANY sort of a stretch because of his history of actions AND because of his big fucking mouth.
Bush and Blair HAD TO know that they were taking the MOST huge of all possible chances, with HORRIBLE fucking odds against them to succeed without pissing off all the people whom they would be leaving to fend for themselves ESPECIALLY without the number of troops that the correct and righteous UN support would have afforded them IF the piece of shit French and equally shit Russians hadn't torpedoed the chance of the world's armed support of disarming Sodom.
Or then the decision by Turkey to disallow entry to Iraq from the north through Kurd territory rather than the wide open spaces of the FAR more vulnerable south....
The now firmly entrenched Islamo-fascists would have had no choice BUT to say 'Whoa'....but there it all went.
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Post by Galactus on Aug 12, 2006 23:18:46 GMT -5
...and DED, stop sarcastically pretending to give me any sort of credit for any intelligence here, alright? When you obviously are convinced that here's no reason to believe such BULLshit as that. Be secure in the fact that you're way smarter, eh? Well, I think you're an asshole and the fact that you pretend I'm the only one who's acting like he's got all the answers just proves it. I don't think you're dumb...I don't think you're nearly as smart as you think you are but neither am I probably so we're even on that front except I can admit it... |
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Post by RocDoc on Aug 12, 2006 23:57:33 GMT -5
...and there's zero doubt to me that you're an insecure dick, DED.
Why else foist this 'He's so smart' crap time after time now?
With all due respect, pleeease shut the fuck up will you? It diminishes you needlessly.
MANY times I've said I don't have all he fucking answers.
And you're THAT uncomprehending to NOT have witnessed me saying it? What a sadsad douche.
'Proof' of an opinion? YOUR opinion when you're blocked to anything I say? Oh fucking BravO and hip-hooray.
Eat me, you have nothing but this non-fact-based dislike of anything I might ever say. 'Proves' shit.
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Post by Galactus on Aug 13, 2006 0:11:19 GMT -5
...and there's zero doubt to me that you're an insecure dick, DED. Why else foist this 'He's so smart' crap time after time now? With all due respect, pleeease shut the fuck up will you? It diminishes you needlessly. MANY times I've said I don't have all he fucking answers. And you're THAT uncomprehending to NOT have witnessed me saying it? What a sadsad douche. 'Proof' of an opinion? YOUR opinion when you're blocked to anything I say? Oh fucking BravO and hip-hooray. Eat me, you have nothing but this non-fact-based dislike of anything I might ever say. 'Proves' shit. Man, you really don't get it do you? You continue to act like this little game we play doesn't go both ways. Prove my ass, I know no one here will ever prove anything. You may have said you don't have all the answers but you've made it real fucking clear you have more answers then us dumb ass comic book readers...so eat me, you have nothing but this non-fact-based dislike of anything I might ever say. 'Proves' shit. |
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Post by Galactus on Aug 13, 2006 0:15:40 GMT -5
...and the fact there's "zero doubt" in you makes you all the more the asshole, I at least hope you're not like this in the real world.
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Post by shin on Aug 13, 2006 2:23:32 GMT -5
Same as there SHOULD have been a far more apocalyptic vison of 10-20 Arabs who were enrolled at various flight schools, uninterested in landing their 747 models...someone needed to be fucking shouting 'Danger danger Dr Smith!' before 9 / 11, and when we MOST needed it, it did NOT happen. Exhibit 1:  Who is Coleen Rowley? www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,249997,00.html Exhibit 2: "Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.
The FBI is conducting approximately 70 full-field investigations throughout the U.S. that it considers bin Laden-related. CIA and the FBI are investigating a call to our embassy in the UAE in May saying that a group or bin Laden supporters was in the U.S. planning attacks with explosives."www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/10/august6.memo/Certainly it's reasonable to assume you'd KNOW who the Time Person(s) of the Year are, right? And did you happen to know who "Coleen Rowley" was before such blowing of such whistles? Might it have piqued your interest to investigate into what it was she had done? And certainly it's also reasonable to assume you've heard of the August 6, 2001 PDB memo, given the recent political heat it generated, especially two years ago. So tell me, Rocdoc: you've been posting on the CE board, in it's various forms, for at least 4 years now. Are you honestly trying to tell me that you had NO FUCKING IDEA THAT THERE FUCKING WAS SOMEONE SCREAMING 'DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON' BEFORE 9/11? AND THAT SUCH SCREAMS REACHED THE FUCKING DESK OF THE FUCKING PRESIDENT ON AT LEAST ONE OCCASION? If you honestly think there's a single person, a single solitary person who views the CE board on a consistent basis that doesn't think you're the biggest Bush brownnoser that's ever lived, then I've got some lovely riverside property in Brooklyn you might want to purchase for a cheap price. |
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Post by kmc on Aug 13, 2006 9:31:48 GMT -5
Kenny, I sell you that 'komicks' shit only when you make the very typical 'whatevah' empty fucking smartass comment...there was actually 'content' there. That is IF you're content to believe that Bush & Co thought that those approval ratings were simply going to continue skyward while it became obvious here was no exit strategy in the very real event of disastrous rebellion to the U.S.'s presence in that fucking shithole. Whether it was honest or cynical is beside the point - even if it was entirely honest, it was a display of total incompetence for which they should all lose their jobs.
...even if you're sympathic to the war you still have to admit they've screwed the pooch pretty hard on several occations ...
WTFuck kind of stupid distortion of my hopes and dreams here are you continuing to believe? Yes! Yes! And.... YES! ...and DED, stop sarcastically pretending to give me any sort of credit for any intelligence here, alright? When you obviously are convinced that here's no reason to believe such BULLshit as that. Be secure in the fact that you're way smarter, eh? What are you saying here, Rocdoc? Are you saying that the President and Co. went into Iraq knowingly without an exit strategy? Are you saying that they went in knowing full well that an insurgency was expected, but that the danger was so dire that any more planning would have hindered more than helped? What are you saying? |
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