So what do we do now?

[luke]

Ah, the Nazis...such simpler times...

[frag]

Doesn't it seem as though, in scenarios of pre-emptive action and occupation, we would be more easily equated to Nazis? At least in the case of Iraq?

It's obvious that this is a last-ditch effort. Mid-term elections. Five years since 9/11.

I was just curious because to me, I would think the last thing you'd want to do when you're trying to defend occupying another nation, is bring Nazis and Commies into the political lexicon again. Almost seems like shooting yourself in the foot...anyway.

[rockysigman]

Well, in fairness to our completely inept and immoral government, to my knowledge we're not actively participating in any sort of ethnic cleansing there. We're killing a bunch of innocent people, and we have no business being there, but the numbers of people we're killing are still a long way from reaching Nazi-level proportions.

[frag]

That you know of...

I just meant that I think the whole equation is silly, in either sense, but if it is brought out as a defense of our presence there...that we're closer to that extreme than the terrorist regimes are. It's a very broad assertion...I was just thinking that this administration could do even more harm to themselves with statements like that. I know why he's said those things and what they're trying to get from voters. I guess I just mean to say that it's all really silly and am trying to reflect that.

[rockysigman]

I can agree with that.

[RocDoc]

_{Now you know how Ona and Azu feel. Take a moment to think about that. You're self-righteousness might be easier to swallow if you do.}

I did not ever say that I know how O and A feel. I did say that I can understand why they might feel the way that Kenny said THEY told HIM that they feel.

_{Couldn't agree more, shin. I got into a similar argument with a professor a few years ago, and I used the exact same example.}


...and frag you woulda been wrong.
Like 50 years of history of a kid's forebears' suffering is somehow mystically distilled somehow into this 10 year old's DNA.
It's impossible.

[phil]

HÉ ! Remember Afghanistan ... ??

Bad times follow Taliban back to town

A letter from kandahar | After a brief taste of prosperity, the provincial capital is once again a place of fear and suspicion, writes author Nelofer Pazira

Aug. 27, 2006. 01:00 AM
NELOFER PAZIRA
SPECIAL TO THE STAR

Only a few months ago, the city of Kandahar seemed to be on the road to prosperity.

Newly paved streets with proper signs (one named for Queen Soraya, wife of 1920s Afghan reformer King Amanullah Khan), a park with a children's playground, and several smart guesthouses were part of the provincial capital's new image.

Near the Kandahar market, the foundation of many new modern buildings and houses had been laid.

But now, fear permeates the city. Suspicious eyes watch every passerby and every car is scrutinized.

People shrink from me when I ask for an interview; they run away when they see a camera.

But a few brave souls are still willing to talk to a journalist, among them Mohammad Hikmat.

Hikmat and his younger brother bought land here — $45,000 for 400 square metres — to build a home.

Over the last five years, they'd made good money working with foreign reporters and aid agencies. But six months ago, it all came to an end. The Taliban was coming back — and fear of reprisals spread like a fire.

Then came a series of suicide attacks and printed decrees, often hung on the walls of mosques, ordering the people to stop supporting the government.

The construction company for which Hikmat worked as an engineer laid off most of its staff.

He decided to shelve his dream of owning a house and pack his family off to safety in Quetta, a six-hour drive across the Pakistan border.

His brother, who'd worked as a cameraman for foreign television reporters, destroyed all the press cards and letters of recommendation he'd collected. He erased all the images he'd recorded — footage of the city, interviews with American soldiers — for fear of punishment by the Taliban.

An Indian company that built the road between Kandahar and Spin Boldak withdrew when rumours spread about the Pakistani army helping Taliban forces reach Kandahar.

"The Americans abandoned Afghanistan," says Hikmat. "When they were around, people were making money. The Taliban had run away, but they were not all defeated and the Americans knew that, too. Yet the U.S. decreased the number of its troops."

People here say the Taliban was well positioned when NATO troops — mostly from Canada, Britain and the Netherlands — replaced American forces in the region last month.

Maiwand district — an hour's drive southwest of the capital and the site of a great British military defeat during the Second Afghan War in 1880 — is now the seat of resistance to the government and NATO forces.

"I can't go home because I know the Taliban will kill me," says a Maiwand resident who is hiding in Kandahar and working at a hospital here.

"From our entire village there are only two educated people. It's not hard for the Taliban to find us there. They have continued to issue decrees announcing that the killing of all those working with the current government or any of the foreign agencies — especially the military — is an Islamic duty."

Taliban forces control most of neighbouring Helmand province, where some 4,000 British troops are stationed.

In Helmand, a sinister note, which I recently saw pinned to the wall of a mosque, proclaimed that the Taliban would award $1,000 to anyone who brings in the head of a government worker or foreigner.

"Now, the Taliban is everywhere," says Alia, a nurse in Kandahar's Polyclinic Hospital.

She and her family returned from Pakistan four years ago and now live in the Khoshal Mena neighbourhood, a short distance from the city centre.

"There was a doctor called Aziz in this building who received a threat" she says. "The Taliban hung a leaflet on his door, telling him that if he didn't stop working for the government and didn't take his children out of school, he would be killed."

The doctor and his family fled immediately.

Now, Alia has taken down the sign on her door that carried her name and occupation.

"My children are also in school and I'm worried that I may face a similar threat," she says.

Kandaharis have strong opinions on whom to blame for the Taliban's resurgence.

Wakil Sahib, a member of the Religious Council of Kandahar, says Pakistan doesn't want its neighbour to be economically independent.

"They want to keep Afghanistan as their market. They want us to continue to go to their doctors, buy their medicine, use their products. To serve their own interests, the Pakistani intelligence service funds the Taliban."

Saifullah, a man too frightened to identify his job, agrees.

"Pakistan, with the help of the U.S., originally created the Taliban," he says. "And to this day they are providing them with weapons and money."

Rafi, an unemployed engineer, points a finger at both the United States and the Kabul government.

"After the U.S., the responsibility lies with our own government, which has also failed to deliver," he says. "But I wonder if the war in Afghanistan is less about the Taliban and Pakistan, and more about the rivalry between America and Europe. Afghanistan has become a victim once again, just like it was during the Cold War.

"It would be easier to live under the full control of one or another government, be it the Taliban or a U.S.-supported Afghan government. But this is like living in purgatory."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nelofer Pazira, 33, was raised in Kabul. She fled the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan with her family in 1989 and settled in Canada a year later. She is the star of the movies Kandahar and Return to Kandahar, and the author of A Bed of Red Flowers: In Search of My Afghanistan.

[phil]

Meanwhile ... Back at the ranch ...


Pentagon Says Conditions For Iraq Civil War Exist

September 1, 2006 -- A report issued by the U.S. Defense Department today says conditions that could lead to a civil war exist in Iraq, but that the current situation in the country is not a civil war.

The report says the "core conflict" in Iraq has changed to a battle between Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims that is overshadowing the insurgency.

The report says the nature of violence in Iraq is defined by the rising sectarian violence between the Sunnis, who controlled Iraq under Saddam Hussein, and the majority Shi'a, who are ascending in power after decades of oppression.

A recent surge in violence in Iraq has left some 200 people dead in the past week, including 17 U.S. soldiers.

The Pentagon report says the current security environment is at its most complex state since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003.

Nevertheless, the report concludes that "movement toward civil war can be prevented."

---------------

HÉ ! As long as we "stay the course", everything will be fine in the end !

[kmc]

Conditions exist? The Civil War has been going on for months!

[Galactus]

So how 'bout this no confidence vote for Rummy?

[phil]

I'd go for the whole administration ... !!

[Mary]

ded said:

So how 'bout this no confidence vote for Rummy?

I'm confused, are you referring to something that has actually happened??

[Galactus]

mary said:

ded said:

So how 'bout this no confidence vote for Rummy?

I'm confused, are you referring to something that has actually happened??

Nothing's happened yet, but Senate Dems may try to force a vote of no confidence soon. Obviously an attempt to make him resign.

[Galactus]

...aside from this not being Parliment, I'm not sure censure would pass anyway.

[kmc]

I say let Rummy stay, fire his boss.