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Post by shin on Sept 7, 2006 16:06:20 GMT -5
Is it truly balance you'll achieve when you so willingly fall into the trap of placing fault on one side so much more than the other? You are stupid. |
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Post by Mary on Sept 7, 2006 16:06:48 GMT -5
I think you are buying into a particular caricature of the "Bush Sucks" crowd that is fed to the American public by people like Karl Rove. Do you really think the vast majority of people who condemn this presidency have no tangible objections whatsoever to Bush's domestic policies? Often on top of the list is the environment - very very few of his ardent critics aren't aware of and seriously concerned with this issue. Um no, I just go out of my house every morning and look at the average "liberal" student at UT (AVERAGE, not claiming all are this way, but a majority of them are in my experience) and I want to gag. I haven't had the pleasure of actually living in a place like San Francisco where people can tell you WHY they don't like some one. I also use present to you the Defense of Marriage Act, Don't Ask Don't Tell, and The Welfare Reform Act, passed by Clinton as a further example of the conservativism of domestic policy and I didn't hear anyone grumbling like they are now. I have a problem with that as I had hateful words and huge problems with those particulare legislative items. FWIW, I've repeatedly grumbled about these things, and in fact repeatedly stated that they are the reason for my complete alienation from American politics and total disenchantment with the Democratic Party. As for whether anyone else has grumbled about such things, well certainly the folks in the Clinton Administration who quit the government after he signed welfare reform grumbled. Certainly the numerous articles condemning the welfare reform act grumbled. Certainly every Democrat I knew at Dartmouth - fucking new hampshire, not SF!!! - grumbled. The fallout from the Welfare Reform Bill was quite pronounced, actually - it was the only subject of conversation at nearly every political gathering I attended for months and months afterwards. Yes, people aren't still complaining as loudly about it now, but that's only because people have short political attention spans, and other issues have become more prominent on the agenda. M |
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Post by shin on Sept 7, 2006 16:08:54 GMT -5
What I am getting is that Bush is bad, but so were Clinton and JFK, and as such typical Democratic gripes against the President are just hypocrisy. Yes, finally. Ding, Ding, Ding. YES, I find it hugely hypocritical and amusing. You are just as stupid. |
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Post by Mary on Sept 7, 2006 16:10:41 GMT -5
Curious - do you extend the same benefit of the doubt to Rush Limbaugh in the arguments he constructs? [/quote] Of course. My problem with Rush is when he actually makes arguments, I find them exceedingly poor. My problem with him is also that I've heard him say numerous things that I find quite simply offensive, regarding minorities, gays, etc. My problem is not that when he attacks Clinton, he doesn't spend half an hour establishing all his objections to Clinton. |
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Post by Mary on Sept 7, 2006 16:11:15 GMT -5
is there something wrong with the "quote" function on this board? weird shit seems to keep happening with it...
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Post by Kensterberg on Sept 7, 2006 16:11:59 GMT -5
is there something wrong with the "quote" function on this board? weird shit seems to keep happening with it... Seems okay to me ... |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Sept 7, 2006 16:13:25 GMT -5
Nader as a disaster eh? Gonna explain why or are you going to continue to be an apologist for closet conservatives like Al Gore.
Myth #1: Al Gore supported Clintons illegal bombing of pharmacutical companies that provided young children medicine in the Sudan. He also supported sanctions against Iraq and I will tell you that just because you don't fire a weapon at someone doesn't mean that policies you impose don't kill them. If you really think that Al Gore wouldn't have been buisness as usual than you are sadly mistaken.
Myth #2 Al Gore got a voting of 87% from the Pro-Life movement on his record for voting for anti-abortion measures during his tenure as a Senator. So you really think that he would have been for "personal liberty"? We're talking about a guy here who helped his wife hunt down musicians for content in the PMRC, in the process broaching cross party agreements with some of the sickest conservatives to have ever exist.
Myth #3 Al Gore made and continues to make about 20 million dollars a year on OIL. He supported Clinton not signing Kyoto because of the impact it would have on American Industry. He also personally does not have solar power or any other alternative fuels employed at his residence and drives huge SUVS.
It's pretty easy once you're out of office to say you "would have done that" but you see, his previous record is one of total SHIT so that speaks more to me than his convienent non-truths spouted off in Music Industry magazines, which I find highly offensive considering the shit he pulled in the 80s with the PMRC, the second McCarthyism as far as I'm concerned.
I will also admit to what ever you come back with I'm going to be predisposed to thinking "shut up, you fool" so take that for what it's worth.
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Post by Mary on Sept 7, 2006 16:13:47 GMT -5
Um no, I just go out of my house every morning and look at the average "liberal" student at UT (AVERAGE, not claiming all are this way, but a majority of them are in my experience) and I want to gag. I'm really not trying to be an asshole here but you're saying you can discern so much about the hypocritical political commitments of the average UT student by looking at them when you walk out of your house in the morning?? |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Sept 7, 2006 16:15:52 GMT -5
Yes, finally. Ding, Ding, Ding. YES, I find it hugely hypocritical and amusing. You are just as stupid. Again, Shin, you want to retread familiar ground be my guest, but it's posts such as this that are an example of I'm ignoring you from here on out. You want to be third grade and accusational and sensational be my guest, but I'm not feeding into it. I'm enjoying the conversation so far and I don't need your poopy pants weepy apocolyptic attitude quite frankly. Good day to you sir. |
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Post by Galactus on Sept 7, 2006 16:17:27 GMT -5
I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to give equal weight to both sides. If I don't agree with Limbaugh's basic points then anything offsides is going to seem even worse isn't it? Where as say Al Franken would be pretty unbearable if I didn't identify with where he was coming from. It's tricky to be fair about it but I think you can biased and fair at the same time. I don't think Rush shouldn't be allowed to say what he does, I do wish less people agreed with him.
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Sept 7, 2006 16:18:23 GMT -5
Um no, I just go out of my house every morning and look at the average "liberal" student at UT (AVERAGE, not claiming all are this way, but a majority of them are in my experience) and I want to gag. I'm really not trying to be an asshole here but you're saying you can discern so much about the hypocritical political commitments of the average UT student by looking at them when you walk out of your house in the morning?? By look, I mean I actual get to over hear most of their conversations on the Bus and other places and it makes me painfully wince every time. From what I HEAR (as a better clarification) it sounds like mimicry more than decrying. I've even pointedly asked people why they feel that way and I get a blank stare by which I will follow up with "well I feel that way too because......." as just a curiosity. |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Sept 7, 2006 16:22:13 GMT -5
Rush Limbaugh to me is an entertainer and nothing more. His arguments against Democrats are entertaining in the sense that they are so off base and you wonder how he's going to tie it in. I guess the drugs have been good for him.
Al Franken has to have the worst Radio Talk Show in the country. He's a great writer, but a terrible speaker and his constant "um um um, yeah uh, um um" drive me up the wall.
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Sept 7, 2006 16:22:35 GMT -5
Yes, finally. Ding, Ding, Ding. YES, I find it hugely hypocritical and amusing. You are just as stupid. Yawn, dude. Yawn. |
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Post by Mary on Sept 7, 2006 16:24:31 GMT -5
I'm really not trying to be an asshole here but you're saying you can discern so much about the hypocritical political commitments of the average UT student by looking at them when you walk out of your house in the morning?? By look, I mean I actual get to over hear most of their conversations on the Bus and other places and it makes me painfully wince every time. From what I HEAR (as a better clarification) it sounds like mimicry more than decrying. I've even pointedly asked people why they feel that way and I get a blank stare by which I will follow up with "well I feel that way too because......." as just a curiosity. See, the thing is, I just have a feeling you'd find many of my conversations with my friends just as objectionable, because, like I said, since we can all take for granted a certain level of agreement, a lot of our conversations probably do sound just sound like knee-jerk "bush sucks, we hate him, impeach the bastard, this country is going to hell, the GOP is nuts" ranting. But I would hope those of you have seen me post on the boards know that I have reasons for my beliefs, I can discuss them civilly with people who disagree, and I try to be fair in my assessments of political figures - the same could well be true for many of these students whose conversations you overhear - they're on a bus talking to their friends, they're not writing formal position papers. On that note, however, I have to go teach a class, so alas, I must depart for now. M |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Sept 7, 2006 16:27:00 GMT -5
Yeah, but the difference being Mary is that I know that if I asked you on a bus, you would say why and that would be satisfying and the same for your friends. The example I cited from personal experiences hasn't been as gratifying
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