RIP Gerald Ford

[Kensterberg]

loudaab said:

kenholzman said:

FWIW, I also think that pardoning Nixon was the right thing to do in 1974 with those particular facts.

Are you stark raving mad? What we need in government is more transparency. A trial would have provided that. Instead what happened was that the facts got swept under the carpet and set the precedent that "what the public dont know, wont hurt them". We used to have a high standard for the POTUS, but now we really dont expect that much of them. If Nixon would have been impeached and imprisoned that woudl have sent the message that we expect more out of our POTUS. Instead it sent the message that he can get away with breaking the law--a precedent that this current Bush administration (especially Cheney) has taken full advantage of.

If you think that Nixon's resignation in disgrace and subsequent political exile gave the message that the President is above the law, well, you're an idiot with absolutely no knowledge or understanding of American political history. Nixon's resignation actually marked one of the few times, if not the very first time!, that a sitting US President was held in any way accountable for the crimes done in his name during his term. Johnson's "impeachment" was a joke, as was Clinton's, Grant and the other post Civil War Presidents presided over corrupt regimes, but nothing was ever done about it, and Wilson was physically and mentally unfit for office for the last portion of his term but held on to the office anyway.

And if Cheney is your concern, then you need to look a lot deeper than Watergate to see where he thinks his power comes from. There've been some great articles lately talking about how Cheney sees the Office of the Vice-President as falling under neither the legislative nor executive branches, and thus being independent of each. As such, he sees himself as an extra-constitutional power, capable of doing pretty much anything he wants. This neat little theory is used to conceal even the identities of those who work in the Office of the VP itself -- on the basis that the requirement to disclose employees is mandated explicitly for the other two branches of government, not for the VP.

Darth Cheney is a power-mad bastard. Period. Impeaching Nixon wouldn't have done anything to deter Dead-Eye Dick, and would very likely have caused demonstrable harm to the country as a whole. If anything, impeaching Nixon might have made Cheney hunger even more for revenge against the liberal wussies who (in his eyes) emasculated the power of the Presidency. Cheney has made his end-run around any notions of accountability, and we're effectively living through his "Revenge" at this point.

Paul, erm, loudabb, you need to take some good American history and poli-sci courses, fully educate yourself, and then get involved in these kind of discussions. As it is, well, you just look like a half-informed idiot. But maybe looks don't decieve, in this case.

[loudaab]

I disagree. I have nothing against Ford. He was a respectable man. But to say that pardoning Nixon was good for the country or that it was a smart move shows that you are letting the sentimentality involved in the death of a man cloud your judgement of history. It is a very slippery slope and when you let someone in power off the hook it sets the precedent for allowing the abuse of power to flourish. Do you seriously think Cheney did not learn anythng form this? He was right in the middle of all the conferences, etc in which the decisions were made. And even if your premise is correct that Cheney is just pure evil, then that just goes to support my stance even more. When you allow the abuse of power it opens the doors for people with an evil bent.

Also I have heard alot of Right-wingers say that impeaching Nixon would have been terrible for this country--yet none of them have any proof or even any points of argument. Did Clinton's impeachment ruin the country? No, ofcourse not. Sod dont give me this for the good of the country bullshit--cuz it dont fly.

[loudaab]

kenholzman said:

loudabb, you need to take some good American history and poli-sci courses, fully educate yourself, and then get involved in these kind of discussions. As it is, well, you just look like a half-informed idiot. But maybe looks don't decieve, in this case.

Looks like this half-informed idiot just slammed dunked your ass, doesnt it?

[shin]

Nope, it doesn't.

[loudaab]

shin said:

Nope, it doesn't.

Yes, it does. Ken has not been able to refute my logic. He knows he could try, just for the sake of giving it the old college try and argue for arguements sake. But if he has any logic or any sense of ethics he will just go cowar in the corner and lick his wounds as he has done oh so many times before.

[rockysigman]

So we're going to go through all of that again? I'd much rather just talk about the Replacements. Or maybe we should just tell some dead baby jokes.

Hey Galacshin, are you hungry?

[loudaab]

Nah, this threads over. Ken doesnt have the integrity to admit he's wrong, so he'll simply continue his life of illusion and denial and pretend this slam dunk never happened.

[shin]

YOU HEARD THE MAN THREAD'S CLOSED

[loudaab]

shin said:

YOU HEARD THE MAN THREAD'S CLOSED

Ofcourse I'm always willing to re-open it if Ken wants to come back with his tail between his legs and admit he was wrong and that I slam dunked his wrinkly old white-haired ass.

[shin]

SORRY NO BACKSIES STRAT LOCK IT DOWN PLZ

[Kensterberg]

I don't have any hair on my ass. But you wouldn't know that PEW. You should stop making generalizations based on your own characteristics.

How are your wife and kid doing anyway? I notice that they were both conspicuous in their absence from your posts here.

[shin]

[Kensterberg]

This topic really has run its course, hasn't it? Locked.