PEW's Status

[skvorisdeadsorta]

The intention of this poll was to just point out what a major pain in the ass PEW is/was. Usually, I wouldn't give it much thought, but the guy continued to troll even after all of us went out of our way to be nice the guy. I don't really see any fault in any poster on this issue and really, yeah, I'm sure PEW's feeling pretty cool right now that he caused a major rift in the posters on this forum.

I would like to say that it would be nice to have Rocky back here but that is his choice. I have a terrible temper and I have thought about leaving, but then I wouldn't get to enjoy all of the things that people around here have to say. I would have never received a cool mix from Rocky if I had done that and I would have never made stuff for other posters as well.

Now Thorn, I understand the freedom to express and I know it seems hypocritical to have made this thread about PEW, but honestly the guy just didn't show the respect to anyone to stick around. I'd like to not see you take a hiatus over something that was beyond your control. It's not like any of us were out to get PEW, he pretty much sealed his fate all on his own.

So I will see you guys around the other boards......and I can't say I don't have an extra bounce in my step now that PEW is gone. Yep, that extra bounce is there.

[maarts]

ded said:

maarts said:

I'm also sad to see Rocky go but I think it is more a Sedaka-thing than anything else.

FTR, Rocky didn't tell us he was going to and we've never pressured or asked anyone to delete their account or stop posting here. I'm not how it's a "sedaka thing" since most of us are still active over here.

I think he left in protest after someone got banned.

[Kensterberg]

This thing has gotten waaaaaaaaay out of hand at this point. Rocky got drunk and deleted his account. Didn't know he'd done it till the next day. Who knows if he'll be back. I hope so, and I'm gonna go into why as part of addressing how I see all the shit going down.

Once upon a time, there was this great big thing called the Rolling Stone Message Board, which seemed to catch a great variety of music fans in its net. You had people from all over the world talking about the music that they were fascinated with/obsessed over/and hated, and it had some very cool moderators as well. Now this Board was originally beset with technical problems, as it would crash every weekend and often at nights b/c of the volume of posters. Ultimately, this problem was fixed ... and then came the trolls. Many of the trolls started out as regular posters, some of whom just decided that they'd have more fun being internet misanthropists rather than engaging people (PickAxe, for one), some of whom had different ideas about what the boards were there for (i.e. folks like FreeToys who put up the kind of image/flash content that the boards couldn't accomodate with their assigned bandwidth). In the board moderator's infinite wisdom, they rarely banned anyone for these behaviours, and only as a last resort. Ultimately, there are rules to any social group, and people who can't follow the rules ultimately have to be sanctioned.

These boards, being very diverse, fostered many different social groups and many different types of conversations. There were people who were there primarily to talk about music, and only secondarily to discuss aspects of their lives (this is the camp I wound up in). Also, there were people who got into discussing more personal subjects, or basically just shooting the shit (I started out in this camp, and gradually became less and less "personal" in my posts). As part of the latter group, a bunch of folks began to hang out in the Neil Sedaka board (can you think of a less likely personage to "discuss" on the internet?) and hang out, shoot the shit, and generally enjoy each other's cyber-company.

Alas, one day the Rolling Stone Message Board disappeared, much to the surprise and chagrin of everyone who posted there, no matter what their preferred style or subject matter. And one guy stepped in and said, "we can't just let this community die." That was Strat-0, who started this board as literally a life-raft until (presumably) RS.com got its shit back together. He didn't have to do this, and we didn't have to come here, but for many of us, this beat the hell out of losing touch with people we'd spent years getting to know. And so a motley collection of RS.com posters got together here ... which almost immediately led to some trouble.

That trouble resulted from a poster who used to primarily post on the Sedaka page, and on other related discussions, who decided that some "faux-troll" behavious here would be good for a laugh. Like a great many others here (including myself), Strat had a "zero tolerance" policy towards such hijinx, and that poster was ultimately banned. If I'd been the mod at that time, I would've done the some thing.

At any rate, at some point during/shortly after this first incident, a regular Sedaka poster began his own board, which was by invitation only and to which he invited his pals. This is what we still refer to as the Sedaka clique, although that board has had more than a few names. A great many of the people over there post over here, too, or used to. But the fundemental vibe is a bit different.

Sedaka still has the feel of an exclusive bunch of friends who basically run things their way, and who once in a while extend an invite out to someone else. Many people have never had an invite to Sedaka simply b/c someone in that group doesn't like that poster, or for whatever reason doesn't want them there. A lot of the people who only post there say that they wouldn't feel comfortable saying things in this community, or wouldn't want people to read what has been said about them. This forum, in contrast, is open to anyone who can follow its minimal rules. Last year I got an invite to Sedaka, and I post there as well as here. However, the frequency and content of my posts is dramatically different.

I make a few smart-ass comments at Sedaka, and sometimes will chime in with music or movie suggestions or such, but I've only posted 927 times there since June, 2006. When I want to really talk about something -- music, movies, TV, CE -- I do it over here. And I don't see that changing. Sedaka's a kind of cool place to hang out, but it's not as open, not as conducive to meaningful (IMO) discussion. Again, this is all just in my over-forty opinion. I'd hate to lose my membership there, but I'd give it up before I'd leave here.

And this is why I want Rocky to come back here. I like talking about music with Rocky. And politics. And whatever. It's not the same on Sedaka for me. There are too many people here I miss when I'm there. I almost never double post things between here and there, if you wanna hear me blabber on about Prince (or this post itself) then you've got to read it here, b/c I'm not gonna put it up over there. It's redundant. Everyone on both boards (with a very few exceptions) started out in the same big tent at RS.com. I'm sorry that the ability and temptation to have separate boards here has resulted in a split of that community.

All in all, I think that Strat has been as hands-off and fair as a moderator can be. Frankly, he's a lot less restrictive than the moderator at Sedaka. When was the last time that Strat told someone that they needed to get back onto the board topic? When was the last time that Strat said what a board's contents should be about? If we want to talk about Chinese history on the Influential Music board, I doubt that Strat is going to come in and tell us to take it elsewhere. That just doesn't happen.

If Strat has a fault as a moderator, it's that he's too willing to give people a second (or third) chance. And I'll be frank, I've got the same basic philosophy. When PEW showed back up here, I said "let's give him a chance to see if he's changed." And even when Skvor posted this poll, I had real doubts about banning PEW, which I resolved in the course of making a post here. I generally think that the people here are mature enough to manage their discussions themselves, and I'd run this place a lot like Strat has. In fact, I don't know if there are any major decisions I would've made any differently than he has.

So that's how I see these two boards, which IMO are destined to continue to co-exist for the foreseeable future. Sedaka is a hand-picked group who rarely disagree vigorously. Castaways is a more diverse, and more random, group where disagreement is a part of the very fabric. That's my take on this right now. I may well be wrong, but that's what I see. And I think that the posters who have left here for Sedaka (which does not include Phil or Chrisfan, for example) are the ones who would rather avoid people with whom they have serious disagreements. This is the more challenging forum, and frankly it makes for better discussions.

I've gone on far too long with this, and most of it was probably redundant. I hope that this doesn't cost me my spot at Sedaka, as I do really like those folks too, and enjoy the discourse there as well as here. But if I have to choose one or the other, there is no doubt where my loyalties lie, right here.

[Kensterberg]

Oh yeah, one more thing ... There is absolutely NO CONSPIRACY at Sedaka to "bring down" Castaways or to coordinate anything generally. To the extent that this has happened in the past, it has been the sort of thing amongst just a few people that could just as easily have been accomplished via email if there were no Sedaka board. The idea that there is a group over there, or some mastermind, who have nothing better to do than to come up with ways to harrass folks here is nuts.

At least that's what I've seen.

[Galactus]

Holzman, I respect what you've said but I have disagree with some of it. You've always been free to have your own opinion over there. We wouldn't ask you choose us or them...I think that it's "us or them" anyway is stupid, or ban you for expressing your opinion. I can't say I'm not a little hurt you think of us that way. We've welcomed you and I've never seen you restricted in anyway. I ain't mad atcha though. I don't know what to think any more, I'm just tired of all the bullshit. I like everybody on both boards too much to leave but some days I wish I could.

[Kensterberg]

ded said:

Holzman, I respect what you've said but I have disagree with some of it. You've always been free to have your own opinion over there. We wouldn't ask you choose us or them...I think that it's "us or them" anyway is stupid, or ban you for expressing your opinion. I can't say I'm not a little hurt you think of us that way. We've welcomed you and I've never seen you restricted in anyway. I ain't mad atcha though. I don't know what to think any more, I'm just tired of all the bullshit. I like everybody on both boards too much to leave but some days I wish I could.

Thanks DED. That's really how I feel about it -- I like pretty much everyone on both boards. It's not that there's any formal censorship at Sedaka, it's just that you guys have conciously picked people such that there's no "rocking the boat" -- there are few if any big disagreements between people over there, and it's largely b/c either everyone has the same basic views on things they talk about, or b/c they don't talk about those things over there.

And I certainly have felt free to say anything I've wanted to, it's just that I don't want to go into lengthy music-related posts over there. It just seems kind of out of character for the place. Finally, I know that no one is asking (or requiring) me to make a choice between the two, but I also wanted to make sure that there was no doubt that I'm not leaving here in the foreseeable future. Well, unless something happens where I'm off the internet totally for some reason. But that's it. Or if PEW comes back.

[Galactus]

I can understand that I guess, but it's not intentional. Most of us just know where everyone stand on a lot of things. Sometimes I feel like a broken record over here. I enjoy all the lists and things but I'm never really surprised at how any of them turn out. I'm a music geek though...love lists and meaning discussions. I'll do it where ever it happens to be.

[Kensterberg]

Oh yeah, I would love to have more points of view in the music discussions here. To me, that's the biggest weakness this place has right now. Even though it's "open," it's still awfully insular. As you guys at Sedaka have found out, an injection of new blood can really liven things up.

I wish I knew how we could manage that here, but I really don't. I'd be game for any suggestions anyone might have, though.

[Mary]

I have a thought. I really lack the motivation to carry through on this, but if anyone else wants to...

...we've focused so much attention recently on the spate of account deletions: phil, layla, kenny, rocky. But we tend to forget or not notice the much less dramatic disappearances - people who just gradually stop posting and then disappear. Here are some names from the castaways membership roll that should spark some nostalgia: achn2b, aphexziqpusher, CWA, dwazee, iftm, hollow, angel, lumencandle, ueb, meursault, matheus, ben (peach!), pattentank, zorndeslammes (deadandrestless!), etc etc. There were many more names too, I just randomly picked a few. It's hard for a board like this to get an infusion of new blood, but maybe we could get "new blood" in the form of old-timers dropping in again?

I don't know. A few of these folks list emails. Maybe someone could drop them a line. I'm not saying you write them and say "hey, castaways is dying and nobody posts there anymore, please come save us!" - just a friendly email finding out how they're doing and saying that some folks at castaways would love to hear from them again. But I'm not gonna do it myself cause I'm too lazy and too busy with other shit. But I'd loooove to shoot the shit with a lot of these people - i wanna find out what crazy-ass shit deadandrestless is listening to these days, i wanna catch up with lumen and ueb and dwazee, i wanna shane/meursault to ask 17000 new questions.

but it's a chicken and egg problem. there's no real incentive for people to come back here if the boards seem dead and they barely get a response. which leads me into my other point: these boards are dead in part because so many posts just disappear into the ether. there's not much of a response rate. you post something, you have no idea if anyone will acknowledge it, it might get one three-word reply, maybe. i'm not complaining at all - nobody has any obligation to post on a message board. i'm just saying, it creates a serious disincentive to bother saying anything when there's like a 12% chance that anyone will ever acknowledge it. since i've joined sedaka one thing i really like about it is that people actually respond to you, conversations last for more than 2 desultory posts.

phew.... enough. not quite sure what i just rambled about but there you have it.

[Ryosuke]

For what it's worth, I've recently been invited to Sedaka too.

I don't really have much of a comment on the rift. I like almost everybody on both sides, and I wish that things wouldn't get so nasty, but I also wish that everyone here would send me a check of 1,000 US dollars each, and I don't think that's happening either (though I'll be happy to pm you my address if anyone wants to). Basically, whenever a storm erupts I just cover my eyes and ears and hope that it calms down soon. Hooray for gutless sissies.

I'm still trying to get the hang of Sedaka, which is a pretty nebulous place for a newbie like myself, but I really like it there. Everyone has been pretty nice to me so far, and I foresee myself posting there a lot. That being said, I agree with Holzman that Castaways seems to be a more appropriate forum for talking about music, and I also think that a wider range of taste is represented here. If I'm going to post about shit like Sleep Walker or Soil & "Pimp" Sessions, I'd probably want RocDoc to read it more than anyone else, because I think he'd be the most receptive to that kind of stuff (seriously RocDoc, you need to hear Soil & "Pimp" Sessions!). And there's also stuff that makes me go "okay, I wonder what skvor will think of this" or "hey I think maarts might like this." I was reluctant to post here for a while because PEW's presence was such a turn-off for me, but now that he's gone, I'm faced with a bit of a dilemma. I guess I could post identical stuff on both boards, although that seems vaguely lame to me...

Though I also agree with ded about lists, because they kind of bore me, and I'm really not that interested in what the ten best albums of the late 80s are or whatever. But that's more of a personal preference than anything else, and if people like discussing stuff like that then I think it's great.

Anyway, yeah, I like both boards and I'll post on both as long as they remain active.

[Galactus]

I certainly agree that the atmosphere of the two boards is different...we used to talk about music a lot over there, still do, but we talk about a lot of other things over there. Things I wouldn't feel comfortable sharing over here and that's the point. It's not private board so we can plot on how to fuck with this board or so we can talk shit without getting caught. It's because most of us feel we have closer relationship and we can feel more free to openly talk about whatever. At least that's the way I feel about it. I know I've discussed things that would never have been brought up an open public forum and I think it brings us closer together as people. The intent really isn't alienate anyone, though a private forum will always have that effect to some extent, it's to preserve a certain comfort zone. Maybe that makes us elitists or weak or whatever. I'm tired of having to defend it, I just wish this competing boards mentality would go away.

[Ryosuke]

ded said:

Maybe that makes us elitists or weak or whatever. I'm tired of having to defend it, I just wish this competing boards mentality would go away.

Oh, it doesn't make you elitists, and I don't think you have anything to defend. I have to confess to feeling slightly alienated when I found out that people like Rocky, Holzman, and luke were members there, but even then I understood it was just a matter of choice. Plus - and I'm going to be very honest here - I figured I'd be invited eventually because I'm too cool not to.

Okay, so maybe I'm the elitist...

[KooL]

I've joined Sedaka too, although it's no secret. Obviously, I have a soft spot for Castaways, it's here I've been since '04 and I've only been posting on the Sedaka boards for a little over a week.

Anyway, I just wanted to comment on something KayJay said yesterday, which basically sums up exactly how I feel about both boards. It's the people that make them, not whoever may be running the place. I like Sedaka, but that's because I can interact with people who I am fond of more often and who rarely, if ever, post here anymore. It's got nothing to do with how I feel about this place [especially now that fuckface is gone] or whoever may be running it. Whether it says 'Sedaka' or 'Castaways' at the top of the page, it really makes no difference. Well, almost, but you get the point I'm trying to make here. It's about who I get to interact with and not where. I like the members on both boards, just as I like the members who also happen to be on both.

That's all. Oh, and can I just kindly request from all, and I'm including myself here, that we no longer bring up this 'sedaka "vs" castaways' nonsense? As a member of both boards, and as someone who is basically ignorant to whatever 'went down' 3 bloody years ago [!!], I find it offensive. Just as I'm sure the posters who only post here who are also ignorant to the 'situation', are tired of hearing about it too. Let's just get back to talking music and nonsense. Please?

Thank you.

I love you all .

Kool.

[ScottsyII]

I'm trying to get back here more often! it beats sitting down and falling asleep in my chair at 9pm every night after the kids go to bed... :-)

I still love this little forum, never really connected with the whole Sedaka crowd, but never really begrudged them for wanting to do their own thing - hey after RS.com canned the entire community, everyone had to do their own thing to maintain their online contacts, fun and habitual shooting the shit...

I landed in this community because a) I was invited, b) it had nearly all of the people I regularly communicated with in it and c) it seemed the most like the old community I inhabited.

And hey, Strat has done nothing other than a completely AWESOME job running this site. I've always felt warmly welcomed, accpeted and looked after, even during the scant posting days of 2006 when months and months would pass without but a single post from me...

So if people are worried that regulars will leave permanently, don;t worry too much. Internet forums are somewhat fluid things - There wa s apoint during last year I thought the whole boards thing was over for me - but the last month or so I have been here more often than in the entire year of 2006. People leave and make comebacks and that keeps communities and forums fresh and enjoyable.

[KooL]

Nice seeing you again Scottsy. Hopefully you'll drop by again before Christmas.
Don't be such a stranger...

Strat, any chance of locking this thread? Or at least moving/renaming it? It has served its purpose, fuckface is a thing of that past and I'm tired of seeing his name every time I hit the 'recent 10 posts' button.