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Post by phil on Aug 2, 2006 9:30:00 GMT -5
The French Canadians (as in francophones outside Québec)
are also a dying breed ...
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Post by RocDoc on Aug 2, 2006 12:50:51 GMT -5
Luke:
It's an uphill battle, really. The world is too small a place these days to hold onto such a secular culture, and (rightfully so) the school curriculums want to focus more on Spanish than French.
'Rightfully so'?
Out of strict pragmatism, perhaps yes.
But I honestly think this is symptomatic of 'young people' placing less and less value on what their parents and grandparents went through and things which they value (like I said, I went through the exact same thing, w/my Yankee buddies hanging around our Lith 'Saturday School', making fun of us for being there)...
It's also symptomatic of mistakenly assuming that going with the flow of cultural homogeneity, that THAT's got to be the ideal.
The whole idea of 'How dare you think your 'Nationalism' trumps anyone else's?' when applied to pretty much every European nationality...especially (and I'm loathe to introduce it, honestly) when it's at odds with the more aggressive types of Nationalism(s) practiced by the rapidly multiplying emigrants from Arabic/Islamic Nations within their 'Host' countries.
Not that they ALL engage in this more aggressive type, but that very many do.
That's a very interesting question that Europe's dealing with.
Their Nationalism is an entitlement and it is now their due, since these countries are supposedly 'enlightened' as to everyone's rights....but 'our' Nationalisms are seen as bad, exclusionary if not labelled outright racist.
Surrendering the French/Cajun French to some sort of an 'Inevitable, so we might as well be fair and just give up'-steamroller of any given group of massively multiplying Nationalities....I don't think that this is 'enlightenment' anymore.
The variety, and the fact that it CAN co-exist vibrantly makes these societies FAR richer places, than if you're looking to just smooth off all every single 'rough edge'.
IF there's still someone to participate with interest that is.
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Post by luke on Aug 2, 2006 13:07:19 GMT -5
Oh, I agree that it can and should exist.
By "rightfully so", I wasn't demeaning the local culture. I merely meant that Spanish, IMO, should take priority, especially as close to the border as we are. So yeah, "pragmatism." So while I think the French/Cajun culture is important to preserve, especially in this increasingly homogenized landscape of ours, I also happen to think that learning Spanish (and teaching our Spanish speaking neighbors to speak English) is pretty essential in the U.S. right now.
There's still room for French and Cajun French, and I'm totally with the idea of immersion in schools. There's a way to balance it, surely.
I mean, truth be told, a fair amount of people I know around my age who speaks good French speaks equally good Spanish. It's another topic entirely, but once you start breaking down Romance languages, it gets easier and easier to keep them falling in place.
Which I guess it's a bit more impressive when people speak a variety of languages in different families than it is for people who speak multiple languages in the same family.
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Post by phil on Aug 2, 2006 14:24:59 GMT -5
Learning Spanish - or Italian -
when you speak French is pretty easy
if you really want to do it ...
Japanese ... ? I don't think so !!
Québec public high schools teach 5 periods of english over a 9 days cycle. Many public schools offer special language programs where the teaching of English and Spanish is more intense.
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Post by limitdeditionlayla on Aug 2, 2006 22:11:37 GMT -5
Most schools here in the U.S. have a language requirement, but it's usually only 2-3 years, and it doesn't start until high school.
Its really hard to pick up another language that late, though. Children learn new languages very quickly, because the areas of the brain that specialise in speech production & comprehension are still developing.
When we moved to Australia I was five & I could speak very limited English. My parents could both speak it, especially my dad. He went to university in England & because he was working as an engineer, forced himself to become fluent in English so that he could gain entry into the United States. I don't know why they didn't really teach us, I guess they figured we'd pick it up quickly.
My first day at kindergarten was at an Australian school, and I could barely speak English. I was fluent not even two months later.
Granted, if you live among native speakers, you will pick up a language very, very quickly, but young children are able to learn remarkably well in schools, even several hours a week. I think its an important skill, esp in countries as multicultural as the US, the UK, Canada & Australia.
There is a lot of evidence linked to bilingualism & increased intelligence & academic aptitude & its practical.
Question: will the US ever adopt Spanish as an official second language? Should it?
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Post by Adam on Aug 2, 2006 22:23:47 GMT -5
We have an official language?
This is news to me.
Wonder how the American Indians think of this...
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Post by limitdeditionlayla on Aug 2, 2006 22:42:51 GMT -5
Your land is Native American, but the United States itself isn't, so really, it shouldn't bother them.
I don't know if English is considered an official language by the US actually.
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Post by Adam on Aug 2, 2006 22:57:58 GMT -5
They're still pissed, though. No one forgets being that fucked-over.
It's not official, yet. This year, an immigration reform bill declaring English the official language was passed by the Senate but now its in the care of the House of Representatives.
We also have large portions of the country speaking Chinese and French.
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Post by limitdeditionlayla on Aug 2, 2006 23:01:39 GMT -5
Oh, I can understand they're still pissed. Native Americans were treated almost as horribly as Australian Aborigines at the hands of Europeans, their bitterness is valid. But in terms of countries, I wouldn't think anything but English should be expected to be America's official language.
I think if Australia had a second language, it'd be Hindi or Cantonese. 20 years ago it would've been Italian.
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Post by Galactus on Aug 2, 2006 23:01:42 GMT -5
English is only the offcial language as far as Gov. documents are concerned and allowing non english speaking folk into the governing process is along way off.
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Post by limitdeditionlayla on Aug 2, 2006 23:06:46 GMT -5
One of my friends is stuyding law & she was telling me that there are talks of abolishing dual citizenship at some point. Has anyone else heard about this?
Ryo, do you hold citizenship in the US as well as Japan?
The idea of mono-citizenship concerns me. Not least because it means eventually Sean & I would have to choose either Australia or the UK to live in.
Does anyone else here hold citizenship in two (or more, if thats even possible?) countries?
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Post by limitdeditionlayla on Aug 2, 2006 23:09:32 GMT -5
I can't help but think that any talk of restricting citizenship to one country is motivated by all the heightened security & global paranoia. The only downsides to multiple citizenship that I can think of are tax-related, but even then, you can't run away from shit like that.
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Post by Ryosuke on Aug 2, 2006 23:43:06 GMT -5
My first day at kindergarten was at an Australian school, and I could barely speak English. I was fluent not even two months later. I started US schooling in first grade, not kindergarten, but things were pretty much the same for me. I actually do (very vaguely) remember taking some English classes in Japan before flying over there, but looking back now there was probably no need for it. I still couldn't speak English when I started, and I still became fluent in a ridiculously short amount of time. And no, I was born in Japan so I don't have dual citizenship. My brother does though, as he was born there. If dual citizenship does become abolished, he'll probably choose to be American. He still lives there, and probably will continue to for the rest of his life, so that makes more sense for him. |
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Post by limitdeditionlayla on Aug 2, 2006 23:51:07 GMT -5
How long have you been back in Japan?
It sucks when you have close family far away from you. My two half-brothers have lived in Spain their entire lives & I only get to see them (& their gorgeous kids) once every two years or so. That really sucks.
Do you get to see your brother often?
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Post by Ryosuke on Aug 3, 2006 0:01:46 GMT -5
Almost thirteen years since I came back here. The last time I saw my brother was two years ago I think, and before that I hadn't seen him for like 4 or 5 years.
And my dad's in Brazil now. He speaks half-decent English, but he speaks no Portuguese at all, so he's really struggling with the language (any tips, kenny?). So our family is pretty spread out. My mom lives in Shizuoka, about two hours away from Tokyo by train, so at least I can visit her occassionally.
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