Beatles vs Rolling Stones

[Thorngrub]

If you wanna start a board where we all gang up on you, fine.

[Rit]

yes, i think that's what would happen, though i'd like the opportunity to see if indeed that's what would happen, as i think you all will be caught up in ecstatic tantric love for Syd as you express your feelings and open your souls to him.

[JACkory]

Waters gets my vote.

[Thorngrub]

But I will tell you who is the REAL "Pink":

Roger.

Roger "Syd" Barrett, that is

[Rit]

But I will tell you who is the REAL "Pink":

Roger.

Roger "Syd" Barrett, that is

whoop whoop. Thorn's in da house.

[Galactus]

My opinions on Barrett are pretty similar to those of VU...with the exception that I consider VU listenable.

[Kensterberg]

phil said:

Ken ~ Jazz, by its own definition, is about improvisation !

Were you talking about Free, avant-garde or Modern Jazz maybe ??

C'mon Phil, you know that some jazz (i.e. Ellington, Miles' work with Gil Evans, etc.) consists of elaborately written and constructed charts, with only the soloists doing any kind of improvisation. When you're talking about ten or more musicians, you can't just shout out, "this is in G, one-two-three!" and expect to get anything resembling music out of it. You've got to have more structured roles for each player. However, there are other forms of jazz (lots of modern jazz, pretty much all of free jazz (as unlistenable as most of it may be), and folks like Bela Fleck and the Flecktones) where there just isn't much structure at all. Like most things, very few jazz artists are purely improv, or purely scripted. When a person went to hear Tommy Dorsey or Glenn Miller (both of whom were surely jazz performers) they weren't looking for something dramatically different than what they'd heard on the radio (or owned on 78, if they were lucky). These guys largely recreated the "definitive" versions of a track over and over in their shows -- just as rock stars do.

So my answer to your query, I guess, is "all of the above, plus more, as appropriate."

[JACkory]

He's right, you know.

[phil]

HÉ ! If we're talking Glenn Miller and Tommy Dorsey's Big Band music,
there is indeed less place for improvisation as in a small ensemble
where improvisation on a theme or melody is the essential creative characteristic...

[Rit]

Ken's point was a good one.
and Phil, improv on the theme or melody occurs in a Big Band only under the most circumscribed and pre-destined of considerations.

[phil]

Isn't it what I've just wrote ??

[Rit]

oops, nevermind then ;D. as you can tell, i'm pretty dumb.

[phil]

as you can tell, i'm pretty dumb.

HÉ ! As they say,

Takes one to know one ...

[strat-0]

...there is indeed less place for improvisation as in a small ensemble
where improvisation on a theme or melody is the essential creative characteristic...

As long as they improvise on a theme or melody, otherwise I'm gone in 60 seconds. Less, actually. I can't stand any of that linear, atonal, "exploratory" shit.

A similar sentiment is expressed here (since the Beatles covered it, I guess that makes it sort of topical):

I’ve got no kick againt modern jazz,
Unless they try to play it too darn fast;
And change the beauty of the melody,
Until they sound just like a symphony

That’s why I go for that
Rock and roll music
Any old way you choose it;
It’s got a back beat, you can’t lose it,
Any old time you use it.
It’s gotta be rock and roll music,
If you want to dance with me,
If you want to dance with me

[phil]

I don't care much about Free Jazz either
and it is not for lack of trying...

I always end up going like this...
which is only slightly better( )
than going like this...
when I hear Punk music ...