America's Greatest Rock and Roll Band?

[Thorngrub]

silly mantis

[Thorngrub]

Ken I loved your rehashed list with all the justifications - - so far I think that is the most comprehensive & sensible list I've seen here. Excellent work chum.

[strat-0]

Silly Mantis! Ticks are for kids!

[Galactus]

I'm proud of myself so far I haven't gone on one single rant about how ridiculously overrated The Velvet Underground are...

So Here's ten
1. Bruce Springsteen and The E Street Band- If you've ever seen them live you know why. It simply does not get any better.
2. The Band- Everyone in this Band was just enormously talented...even though everyone was trying to revise history even before the breakup.
3. The Beach Boys- The only american band to ever seriously compete with The Beatles...in the UK even. From their undenyably classic surf rock hits to the beautifully uneven Brother albums. Most people stopped paying attention after Pet Sounds (which is the greatest album ever recorded, so that gets a spot on the list right there) and that is their loss. They missed Surf's Up, Sunflower and Wild Honey. Three extremely underrated albums and classics in their own right.
4. The Allman Brothers- Played jazz desiguised as southern rock. Genius.
5. The Pixies- Ingored the rules, wrote new ones.
6. Black Flag- These guys pressed the reset button. Kids saw that they could be rock stars. They could get up on stage and be pissed off. They could be the band.
7. Booker T. & The Mg's- Not really so much their output but for their work as the Stax/Volt band. The only band to play on more hits was the Motown band but since they never released an album...also as opposed to the Motown band, Stever Cropper actually wrote quite a few of those hits.
8. Talking Heads- For all the reasons everyone says.
9. Buffalo Springfield- OK I'm cheating, It's the only way I could add Neil Young.
10. Pearl Jam- Just a great band who dispite losing a large portion of their audience hasn't lost one bit of quality in fifteen years.

I'm not completely happy with that list....there are so many other bands I want to put on there....I'll give it another shot later this afternoon.

[Rit]

and believe me, i can appreciate how much self-restraint DED is showing about not ranting about the VU being overrated...

[Rit]

i'm going to mildly annoy DED by typing up a li'l something something on the Velvets.

This is my attempt to prove why the Velvets are the best American band ever.
----

-The Velvet Underground are a league above the Stones, for their tasteful demolishment of the old stage/audience relationship; their willingness to expand the boundaries of the idea of a band (re: girl drummer, unorthodox band-audience relations, urban-centered as opposed to suburban-centered);

-their forceful band presence unified by commitment to humane gestures for one and all;

-& creating a meaningful context for future bands to borrow on and build upon a private space in the entertainment industry (what is typically known as "alternative" music --> basically a cry for private fulfilment in what is essentially a cynical music industry);

-and imbuing intense poetry and feeling into every riff and lyric.

I just listened to the third Velvets album, and something occured to me, which further refines what i was talking about. The spiel about to follow keeps the idea of the Velvets' second and third albums as the real yin-yang heart of their entire career. The debut album and Loaded were great albums in their own right, but the second and third were the catharis and retraction of Lou Reed's inner demons, which makes for an engaging story.

The self titled third album (let's call it "s/t" shall we?) is really the antithesis of White Light/ White Heat. The two albums form polar opposite ways to make and conceive music.

White Light/ White Heat is totally viseral, physical, expansionary (re: the free jazz solo on "I Heard Her Call My Name").. It exists in the exterior world - it really can be looked at as the most barest sketching of Lou Reed's and John Cale's personalities and inclinations writ large; there's no attempt to clothe the music in any kind of rock fantasy or archetype.

Meanwhile, S/T is totally different yet again. It looks like Lou Reed's total meltdown album. It's filled with cries for help, with feelings of searing guilt, pain and empathy. I think Reed really was in some kind of spiritual malaise (re: the seemingly honest paean to Jesus); he does effectively convey the sense that this is new music we're listening to in the context of the time. Others were doing similar confessional musics in 1969, but Lou Reed means for his confessional album to be devastatingly sincere, and in fact, he has something over the rest of them: he has seen the seamy side of life, not merely been a dilettante about it, he's walked the walk amongst the degenerates he found at Andy Warhol's circles, and recoiled from it.. the third album are the songs of an urbanite on his knees. You can't look at a song like “Jesus” or “I’m Set Free” any other way. To the man's credit, he was wise enough to know that the best way to get through to people was give them music which pulled no punches (re: WL/WH), or give them hearfelt joy and pain (re: S/T): simply shocking in the context of the thinking man's Sixtes.

The root impulse, as always with the Velvets, remains the same: an utter intractable sense of owing the audience the courtesy of no wasted moments, no spare thoughts, nothing else but the humble struggle to appreciate a world that is as ugly as sin on its best days, hence Reed's constant fascination with the seedy side of life on all 4 Velvets albums.

In the end, this is not mere trope or stylistic advances (as even the Rolling Stones were definitely guilty of many a time), it is Reed's honest terror that the world cannot be saved or truly known by mere song and dance. This is the true root of why every Velvets riff and lyric has that heaviness at the core of it, lurking and smirking away.

[JACkory]

kenholzman said:

For that matter, where's Ferdman to bring up Phish? Or someone to sing the praises of the Dave Mathews Band?

And Strat-0, as to who you could possible be referring to as the greatest rock band ... well, if I could see for miles, I might have to agree that the group in question could take on anyone, anyway, anyhow, anywhere, in my generation or anyone else's. But they'd still come up short to the Clash. I tell ya, Joe, Mick, Paul and Topper were the absolute zenith of rock and roll ... for my ears at any rate. Your mileage may vary ...

That last bit with all the Who titles was funny, Ken.

I almost...just ALMOST put Phish on my list. Couldn't even tell you why I didn't...I don't know my own self.

As for Fleetwood Mac being 3/5's British...it doesn't matter, IMO, cuz when Stevie and Lindsay joined they became THE sound of Southern California, and that's good enough to put them in the "American band" category.

Thorny, if you're insisting that these bands must rock hard then you have to include Steel Pole Bath Tub, the Melvins & Tad.

I almost put the Pixies on my list, too, but momentarily forgot what a huge influence they actually were on many bands that followed (the most obvious, Nirvana, of course).

If we're talking about personal favorite American rock bands then I'd have to add to my list not only Reh House Painters but also Sun Kil Moon, Counting Crows, Daniel Amos and a few others...

I definately should have included the Stooges, the Ramones and Television. That was an oversight.

And anyone who tries to place Dave Matthews Band within these hallowed ranks will get an earful, and hopefully not only from me...

[rockysigman]

I have to think there's got to be some irony intended in a post that says the VU are overrated, but then praises the Pixies for writing new rules. I love the Pixies, but for all their wonderful quirkiness, most of it was just their own take on stuff that the VU did twenty years earlier.

[Galactus]

Some irony perhaps but the direction that I'm willing to take the Pixies off my list before you'll convince me VU should be on it. Though, and I'm sure Rit will write an essay telling me why I'm wrong, I really don't see much connection between the two.

[bowiglou]

OK..great lists all...I am going to go counter to Ken's dictum and include bands/songleaders such as Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers as contenders......and the order is suscpetible to change based on whim!!!

(1) REM--remember when Musician mag hailed them as USA's best band...(but they did the same for the Mats!!).......their longevity and still interesting music (using Reveal as the most recent point of reference) bespeaks their legacy....Murmer and Reckoning are still classics

(2) Replacements--oh what can I say about this band...their shows were absolutely uproarious events, and Tim, Let it Be, PLease to Meet Me, etc are sheer punk/rock classics.....

(3) Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers--just saw them a few weeks ago and though they don't bridge any new styles they are truly deserved of the moniker "a classic band"...and Ken, they ARE a band...Benmont Tench and Mike Campbell are absolutely instrumental to the bands sound.....

(4) Velvet Underground--was more of a Lou Reed fan from the early 70s on and didn't get into VU til the 80s......but then became rather smitten.......they definitley broached the underbelly of New York

(5) The Doors...I am well aware there is a good chunk of you that loath this band, and Ken and I have had some good-natured ribbing through the years..that being said, regardless if you think is writings were sophomoric self-absorptions at best and a drunken buffoom at worst, to me they were indispensable in 1967...........we didn't need any more 'summer of love' bands!!!

(6) X--and let's not forget the Ray Manzareck connection!!......I was lukewarm to their debut (excepting Nausea and title song) but oh boy, Wild gift just turned my head around...I've seen them about 6 times and was never disappointed........the merging of Doe and Cervenka was the perfect punk convergence...their tales of LA are haunting and ominous........

(7) Talking Heads---why is this band not on all of your lists?.........quirky, creative, disjointed...just what 1977 needed!!

(8) The Byrds...I am not a huge fan, but to leave them off the list would be irresponsible....their influence on many subsequent bands is undeniable......

(9) Blondie----yes, they didn't have much of quality post Eat to the Beat, but their first four albums are eternally listenable and classic...and Deoborah Harry is such an icon!!

(10) Steely Dan----they paint as much of the dark side as X but with jazzy overtones!!!


..........and many more though some of these bands may have had some UK members): Fleetwood Mac, Flaming Lips, Pretenders, the Band, CSNY and all incarnations, Quicksilver Messenger Service, Pixies, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Lovin Spoonful, the Stooges, Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, the Ramones, etc......

[melon1]

My pix are no difficulty, really:

1, 2 & 3

U2, Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin: Neither of these is better than the others. When I pick the best bands to me, I don't go by any other guidelines other than who wrote the best music. It isn't really relative to me who did what first and who had the most influence on other bands, who has been copied the most etc. It's as simple as who made the best music, whose songwriting is the absolute best, who evokes the most passion in me. For me, Pink Floyd produced the best albums, Led Zeppelin produced more stellar albums in a row than any other band ever( I know, I know, someone's going to say that accomplishment belongs to the Beatles but I don't find their albums as inspiring as Zep's). U2 wrote the greatest songs. 3 of their songs are in my top 10 favorites ever: "With Or Without You", "The Unforgettable Fire" and "All I Want is You".

#4 Radiohead - Today's Pink Floyd. The best band around today. MUCH better than new U2 IMO, with the exception of HTTT.

#5 Bob Dylan - My idol in all of music if I had to pick one. This is based on personality as well as songwriting. If songwriting were the only criteria for my idol it would have to go to Jimmy Page.

#6 Blind Melon - Of course you were wondering where these guys would fall on my list. Quite simply the most underrated band ever.

#7 Smashing Pumpkins - Billy Corgan, asshole that he is, is one of our generation's best songwriters. A friend of mine only digs the Pumpkins when they jam. I'm the polar opposite of that. Even though I love their jamming, their mellow stuff is my favorite Pumpkins.

#8 Dinosaur Jr. - J. Mascis is a guitar god. The guitar solo on "Thumb" brings tears to my eyes. Also and underrated band, especially the album, You're Living All Over Me.

#9 The Beatles - Don't really have to explain this one.

#10 Pearl Jam - Considered the best band of the 90s by posters on the old RS site and I can definitely see why. Vedder is THE most ripped off lead singer ever.

[JACkory]

melon1 said:

My pix are no difficulty, really:

1, 2 & 3

U2, Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin:

Welcome back, Melon...
I may as well be the one to point out that this list is of AMERICAN BANDS ONLY.

Always like to beat the more "real-world active" to the punch...

[melon1]

LMAO I can't believe I overlooked that. Oh well, the post will remain. And it's obvious from my list that, for me, Bob Dylan is the MAN for this board.

[Adam]

In no order:

The Ramones
Metallica
The Allman Brothers Band
Guns N Roses
Tool
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Smashing Pumpkins
Pearl Jam
R.E.M.
Creedence Clearwater Revival
The Doors
The Beach Boys
Lynyrd Skynyrd
The Band

[Kensterberg]

One more time ... BOB DYLAN IS NOT A BAND!

But he is the greatest songwriter from 1950 to the present day.