The greatest album of all time discussion board

[Galactus]

I just like to get you riled ritter. Good stuff. You want to talk about Piper At The Gates Of Dawn?

[kmc]

I spent a good time today thinking about this from work. I would personally like to endorse these foloowing two for consideration:

The Allman Brothers Band - Eat A Peach



John Coltrane - A Love Supreme



Two of the best albums there, for sure.

[RocDoc]

Rocky:_{That's a fair criticism (although considering how few newer albums have been brought up in this debate, I don't know that it really applies to a lot of the people here), but I think it's also fair to say that a lot of people refuse to acknowledge the quality of anything made after a certain point in their lives. Plenty of people who did experience the '60s refuse to acknowledge the merit of music made much later than that, and that's an equally distorted view.}

Luke:_{It seems like a lot more would rather live in a box where nothing after 1980 matched up to the Beatles, Floyd, Hendrix, and Zeppelin. Which is complete, utter shit.}

Both of these statements would conform to the fact that a huge majority of the population are both musically illiterate and/or they just do not possess the capacity (better still, the INTEREST) to differentiate different types of music, to the point that anything being the least bit challenging (ie making them think beyond their ‘box’) will cause them to shut down. These usually are the folks who allow their tastes to be determined by popularity, to be ‘knowledgeable’ within their own crowd of (similar) musically indifferent friends.

Most of my friends of similar age are definitely NOT musically indifferent.

So yeah ‘Beatles, Floyd, Hendrix, and Zeppelin’ fall into this convenient shorthand for many of these indifferent ‘Boomer’ people and many many of them are not looking for any challenge necessarily. This would be them losing out on an extremely rich mode of artistic expression which has continued to progress WAY the fuck beyond the moments of ‘Beatles, Floyd, Hendrix, and Zeppelin’ and I have to honestly pity those people because they don’t even KNOW what they’re missing…while they’re thinking that the more ‘musically inclined’ among us are themselves the ones wasting their time frivolously.

Maroons.

[kmc]

Would it be possible to construct a single consistent and definitive album version of White Album (a la the experiment that many undertake with Kid A/Amnesiac) from the two disjointed albums? I'd be interested in seeing the final product.

[rockysigman]

kmc said:

Would it be possible to construct a single consistent and definitive album version of White Album (a la the experiment that many undertake with Kid A/Amnesiac) from the two disjointed albums? I'd be interested in seeing the final product.

I don't even know what you mean. The White Album has already been scientifically proven to be perfect.

[Paul]

thorny said:

I can't take any "Top 100 Albums List" seriously if freakin ACID BATH ain't on there. *next!*

Likewise for me w/ the Kinks....

Seriously, I know I'm beating a dead horse by now, but not having the Kinks on any of these "best of" list just tells me that either y'all seriously hate them, or no nothing about them. If it's the latter, I'll gladly do my part and send people Kinks albums, and/or mixes, just PM me your address and it will be in the mail shortly. If it's the former you simply don't know what the hell you're talking about

Now see the thing that sucks for me about all of this is the global impact/influence on society/sales part. I mean the Kinks had very little, b/c people just don't know about them. If y'all would just listen to Arthur you'll see, er hear that it's indeed a worthy contender. And if record sales are a factor, again, the Kinks totally get shitted on. As I noted early, Arthur, to my knowledge, only sold about 25,000 copies when released in 1969. Another note worth album (which Creem magazine once said may be the best pop album ever recorded) that gets shitted on is Village Green Preservation Society. These two albums easily rival if not exceed anything The Who, Stones and Beatles recorded. For me they exceed, but I can understand not everyone will think that way. However, I really don't think there can be a legitimate "best of......in rock" w/o mentioning the Kinks.

Ok, that's my Kinks rant/rave/vent for the day. Hope y'all will listen to them someday.

kMc, good call on the Coltrane album. I don't know a lot of his work, but I've heard this album and really dig it.

[Kensterberg]

Paul -- I'm not sure if you ever saw this result or not. Here's the final tally for my own survey on The Greatest Rock and Roll Band from the British Isles, along with the points scored by each. As you can see, the Kinks more than held their own on this list:

1. Beatles, 504
2. Who , 442
3. Clash, 375
4. U2, 337
5. Rolling Stones, 308
6. Led Zeppelin, 288
7. Radiohead, 268
8. Smiths, 231
9. Pink Floyd, 212; Kinks, 210
11. Joy Division, 197
12. Cure, 142
13. Cream, 118; Black Sabbath, 114; XTC, 114
16. Echo & Bunnymen, 104
17. Jam, 92; New Order, 90; Elvis Costello & Attractions, 88
20. My Bloody Valentine, 84; Police , 84; Jesus & Mary Chain, 82
23. Pulp, 74
24. Genesis, 69; Gang of Four, 68; Wire , 68; Yes, 66
28. Jethro Tull, 64; Roxy Music, 63
30. Thin Lizzy, 58
31. Pogues, 56
32. Fall, 52
33. Mekons, 48
34. Queen, 46; Sex Pistols, 46
36. Blur, 44
37. Faces, 42
38. Cocteau Twins, 38
39. Buzzcocks, 36; Deep Purple, 36
41. Dire Straits, 34; James, 34; Oasis, 34; Verve, 34
45. Animals, 32; Trash Can Sinatras, 32; Undertones , 32
48. Depeche Mode, 30; King Crimson, 30; Teenage Fanclub, 30; Waterboys, 30
52. Coldplay, 28; Motorhead, 28; Porcupine Tree, 28
55. Iron Maiden, 26; Mott the Hoople, 26; Squeeze, 26; Taste/Rory Gallagher, 26; Zombies, 26
60. Doves, 24; Moody Blues, 24; UFO, 24
63. Magazine, 22; Supergrass, 22
65. Duran Duran, 20; Eurythmics, 20; Graham Parker and Rumor, 20; Idlewild, 20; Psychedelic Furs, 20; Public Image, 20
71. Fleetwood Mac, 18; Spiritualized, 18
73. Judas Priest, 16; Massive Attack, 16
75. Chemical Brors, 14; Fairport Convention, 14; Super Furry Animals, 14; Yardbirds, 14
79. Aztec Camera, 12; Gomez, 12; Homosexuals, 12; Housemartins, 12; Muse, 12
84. Libertines, 10; Primal Scream, 10; This Heat, 10
87. Lush, 8; Mogwai, 8; Siouxsie and Banshees, 8; Soft Machine, 8
91. Placebo, 6; Shriekback, 6

When we did this survey, I was amazed at the concensus at the very top. Damn near everyone listed the Beatles on their ballot, usually within the top ten. The Who and the Clash also showed up on the vast majority of ballots.

[rockysigman]

The Zombies got robbed.

[Kensterberg]

Paul -- I think that part of the problem with support for the Kinks on these boards comes from the fact that (for better or worse) most of us seem to think of them as being more of a singles band. Also, I think that the horrid sound quality on many of the band's cds hurts them immeasurably. I returned Something Else on cd a few years back b/c the master was so horrid, it sounded WORSE than my scratchy old compilition LP did. I love Waterloo Sunset, and a bunch of other Kinks tracks, but so many of those songs have been rendered virtually unlistenable by shoddy issues.

Also, to put my own blatantly personal observations front and center, I think that their appeal is limited by (1) some of the most dated album packaging imaginable (esp. on those late sixties albums -- they practically scream "swinging London"); and (2) some of the most Anglocentric lyrics in rock. The Kinks were certainly the most British of all the British invasion bands, and the fact that they were largely banned in the U.S. for a time in the sixties didn't help make the brothers Davies any more willing to reach out to us in the colonies.

I expect the Kinks to do very well in the upcoming greatest singles survey, unless they wind up completely splitting the vote between numerous tracks.

[Paul]

I remember that list, and was happy to see the Kinks on there, but IMHO, #9 is simply too low for them, top 5 would be more like it....if anything b/c of their influence to the other Brit bands....

Anyway, I'll still bet that although the Kinks made the list at #9 it's b/c of their name recognition alone from the likes of "lola" and "you really got me"; not b/c people know their work. Without looking at Amazon, or google or anything like that, I bet most people here couldn't name 5 songs on either VGPS or Arthur; or even know it was the Kinks if you did hear the albums.....I'm not trying to come off as an ass or anything like that, I'm just willing to bet if people listened to those albums some of these "best of" list would be revised.....the Best of the British Isles would certainly change and the Kinks would move up to the top 5 where the deserve to be. It's just not Arthur or VGPS that I think y'all should listen to, but also Kinda Kinks, Kink Kontroversy, Face to Face, Something Else, and Muswell Hillbillies. Once all those albums are properly listened to, I think most would have a different perspective of the Kinks.

[Paul]

Ken, have you gotten/heard the remastered from Sanctuary/Pye? Those are much better than the ones remastered w/ shitty packaging in the early 90's...Also their RCA/Arista years have all been updated on SACD and sound great. The packaging on both the remastered series is full of linear notes and pictures. Plus, after their "singles" period from 1964 and 1965 they started to release solid albums, and argualby the first concept album w/ Face to Face in 1966 and continued w/ this trend all the way until 1976 by releasing a whopping 11 concept albums.

[Kensterberg]

Paul -- I'm afraid that I haven't heard the latest round of remasters from the Kinks. I'd love to ... but ya know, when it comes time to spend my money, it seems that I always find something else that I want more.

Maybe I'll take you up on your earlier (very generous) offer.

[Paul]

Well PM me, and I'll get something together for you.

[Galactus]

kmc said:

Would it be possible to construct a single consistent and definitive album version of White Album (a la the experiment that many undertake with Kid A/Amnesiac) from the two disjointed albums? I'd be interested in seeing the final product.

If you drop, what are IMO, the three worst songs (Birthday, Rev #9 & Savoy Truffle) it's 1:19, that would fit on a single disc. I don't think you'd need to change the running order. Or are you talking about a single 45 min vinyl album? That'd be alot tougher, however I'm willing to try it.

[phil]

WOAH !! If you want to include Jazz into the discussion,
the first Rock album to make the list will be in something like 12th or 15th position ...

If only because Jazz have a 50 years head start ...