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Post by Kensterberg on Apr 17, 2006 22:39:21 GMT -5
OK Kool, since I'm feeling like writing something right now ... I'll answer this over on that new board that Mr. T just put up ... though I would have called it something like "Review This!" or "Ask the Critic" -- that way, any of the more opiniated and vocal posters could be put on the spot, or could chime in with their answers. Lookin' forward to this. Well, I don't want to deprive you of the thrill of anticipation, Frag. So this will just have to wait till tomorrow. Anyways, I'm watching the Colbert Report right now, and that's about all the truthiness I can handle at the moment.  And I'm too tired to go get that author's name for Kill Your Idols ... actually, it's the editor's name, as every chapter was written by a different critic. Might have been Dereogotis, or one of the other current "name" critics ... I'll check tomorrow, really. |
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Post by Galactus on Apr 17, 2006 22:43:39 GMT -5
Hey, again I'm not Ken...I point it out so no one gets confused,like me he's a handsome man. I'm going to say it's because Springsteen can sing and plant can't. Sam I am.
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Post by frag on Apr 17, 2006 23:04:00 GMT -5
You don't need to look much farther than a handful of Springsteen albums to see why he's better.
Born to Run
The River
Nebraska
The Rising
Devils & Dust
all contain some of the most heartfelt and passionate vocals EVER. Especially on albums like Nebraska and Devils & Dust where he intentionally gives the characters a different voice. Springsteen knows how to use his voice, whereas Plant just kind of whails without any true direction. As for me, I hear zero passion behind Plant's vocals. He sings loud...that's about it.
I have the same problem with Bonham's drumming. Just because he hits the drums as hard as he possibly can doesn't make him a great drummer. It just makes him an obnoxious drunk with expensive equipment.
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Post by wayved on Apr 18, 2006 1:14:35 GMT -5
Frag--you are WRONG. Obviously you havent seen any footage of Bonham playing. Bonham never had EXPENSIVE equipment--just a drumset and some sticks. Sure he was an obnoxious drunk but he had some skills...Check out the Led Zeppelin DVD for proof. (and buy a drumset and see what you can lay on it too while youre at it)
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Post by wayved on Apr 18, 2006 1:16:30 GMT -5
Bonham had skill. Much respect. Rush vs Zeppelin? Completely different bands. I love em both.
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Post by frag on Apr 18, 2006 2:04:07 GMT -5
Ummm...kits are rather expensive. Especially the up-keep when you beat the shit out of them as Bonham usually did. And I've seen quite a few live performances, which is where I formulated that opinion from. Noticed it on their studio stuff. He's a big guy. It's understandable that he's going to be a forceful drummer. But power alone does not great drumming make. On their studio recordings(that I'm familiar with), it seriously sounds like he has all of his drum mics under water. Terrible terrible drum sound. A lot of drummers have skill. Hell, the guy from Blink 182 is actually a pretty good drummer. Bonham just played loud and yes, obnoxiously. That and being any member of Led Zeppelin will get you some notice. I'm sure dying helps too.
I think he would've gotten a better drum sound had he eased off the skins a bit...maybe moved back or something. He had the reach to do it, too. But he didn't.
And though I don't own a drum set, I do play. I'm not sure where you were going with that, to be honest with you. I can only critique someone's playing if I'm familiar with their instrument? Good news for me, I guess, being as I know my way around guitar, bass, piano and drums.
Anyway, my point is...I'm not attacking his skill or lack thereof, but more but his technique coupled with what I can only assume to be bad mic placement. I think John Bonham just wanted to stand out. I can't imagine why else he (or any other self-respecting drummer) would want their drums to sound like that. Add that all up and to me it spells bad drumming. I've seen a lot of would-be-decent drummers fuck everything up by trying to stand out. From what I've seen, I can gather that Bonham, while having the necessary skills it takes to keep a beat, wasn't a tight drummer. Too much flash, where you can see him stumble here and there.
Compare him to any of the following and see what I mean...
Bill Bruford
Max Weinberg
Jack Irons
Phil Selway
Danny Carey
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Post by kool on Apr 18, 2006 4:52:44 GMT -5
You've got to be kidding! Jack Irons a better drummer than Bonham? Or any other one of those wankers for that matter. Zeppelin fuckin rocked and that's all there is to it.
This thread sucks... Plant cant sing? Jimmy can't play? Bonham sucks? I'm still waiting for some trash-talk for JP Jones and what a shitty bass player he was.
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Post by riley on Apr 18, 2006 6:53:55 GMT -5
He was okay. He's not Geddy Lee.
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Post by maarts on Apr 18, 2006 6:59:51 GMT -5
You've got to be kidding! Jack Irons a better drummer than Bonham? Or any other one of those wankers for that matter. Zeppelin fuckin rocked and that's all there is to it. This thread sucks... Plant cant sing? Jimmy can't play? Bonham sucks? I'm still waiting for some trash-talk for JP Jones and what a shitty bass player he was. Led Zep is still 10-7 ahead of Rush. And if I ever had any doubt about the skills of Page, Plant Bonham and Jones, the live 2DVD that was relweased two years ago has taken that all away. Period! |
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Post by Dr. Drum on Apr 18, 2006 7:03:29 GMT -5
Much as I hate to admit this, only one of the three guys in Rush can be accused of this cardinal sin: Neil Peart. Lifeson's riffs tend to be very concise - he doesn't play a lot of excess notes. Lee's vocals can veer into wankerdom at times, but then again, look at the shit that Peart has given him for lyrics (see The Trees, By-Tor and the Snow Dog, etc.), but his bass playing is at once showy, tuneful, and focussed. Peart's the only one who really is a wanker, and so the conclusion has to be that Rush are not a bunch of wankers. I guess with a band of whom it could be fairly said, as one critic did, that the metatext of their first dozen albums, or so was "no matter who you are, our band is better than yours", this kind of misconception is to be expected. But I have to disagree most vehemently, Ken, with the notion that Neil Peart is in any way comparable to someone like Yngvie Malmsteen! Peart’s always been first and foremost a craftsman. He rarely showboats, concert drum solos aside, and when he does get showy, on a song like 1989’s "Scars", for example, there’s far too much going on musically to simply write it off as a hollow technical exercise. Likewise if you’ve ever read an account of their songwriting sessions, his contribution as a lyricist has always been part of an intricate 3-way songwriting process with Geddy and Alex where they have equal input. Obviously, he was primarily responsible for the words but it’s never been a situation where he just presented the other two guys with a finished product. There’s always been a lot of trial and error going on. Also, for every mistep like "The Trees", there’s a dozen Peart lyrics as evocative and economical as "The Analog Kid": A hot and windy August afternoon
Has the trees in constant motion
With a flash of silver leaves
As they're rocking in the breezeor containing the vivid imagery of a "Red Sector A" Ragged lines of ragged grey
Skeletons, they shuffle away
Shouting guards and smoking guns
Will cut down the unlucky ones or the yearning of a "Middletown Dreams" Dreams flow across the heartland
Feeding on the fires
Dreams transport desires
Drive you when you're down –
Dreams transport the ones
Who need to get out of town |
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Post by riley on Apr 18, 2006 7:11:13 GMT -5
and from 75's Caress of Steel. this shit is poignant
I looked in the mirror today
My eyes just didn't seem so bright
I've lost a few more hairs
I think I'm going bald
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Post by riley on Apr 18, 2006 7:11:44 GMT -5
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Post by Dr. Drum on Apr 18, 2006 7:16:57 GMT -5
Been talkin' to me for the last 10 years for sure.  |
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Post by maarts on Apr 18, 2006 7:18:26 GMT -5
Baffling lyrics vol. 41782...from Garce Under Pressure:
I see red
And it hurts my head
Guess it must be something
That I read
It's the color of your heartbeat
A rising summer sun
The battle lost or won
The flash to fashion
And the pulse to passion
Feels red
Inside my head
And truth is often bitter
Left unsaid
Said red, red
Thinking about the overhead
The underfed
Couldn't we talk about something else instead?
We've got mars on the horizon
Says the national midnight star
(It's true)
What you believe is what you are
A pair of dancing shoes
The soviets are the blues
The reds
Under your bed
Lying in the darkness
Dead ahead
And the mercury is rising
Barometer starts to fall
You know it gets to us all
The pain that is learning
And the rain that is burning
Feel red
Still...go ahead
You see black and white
And I see red
Red
(Not blue)
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Post by phil on Apr 18, 2006 7:35:36 GMT -5
Kiss trumps both Rush and Zep !! There, I said it ...  |
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