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Post by frag on Apr 18, 2006 11:51:02 GMT -5
You've got to be kidding! Jack Irons a better drummer than Bonham? Or any other one of those wankers for that matter. Zeppelin fuckin rocked and that's all there is to it. This thread sucks... Plant cant sing? Jimmy can't play? Bonham sucks? I'm still waiting for some trash-talk for JP Jones and what a shitty bass player he was. The comparison was based on drum sound, not ability. All that I mentioned have interesting playing techniques combined with studio mic-ing that worked, in my opinion, for the better. And all of them are good drummers, to boot. My opinion of course. I haven't said anything bad about Jones because, again in my opinion, he's got talent. Good bassist and he's damn good at arrangements. The only qualm I've got with him isn't even really a problem...sometimes his bass drifts into sounding like he's playing for a porno. So calm down, man. It's just Zeppelin. Ain't no thang. can't believe I just wrote 'ain't no thang.' |
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Post by melon1 on Apr 18, 2006 13:47:05 GMT -5
Bill Ward of Sabbath was my favorite drummer until I saw the new Zeppelin DVD release. Bonham is the god of the drums. My favorite has indeed changed. REAAAAAALLY dig Moon, too!
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Apr 18, 2006 14:50:27 GMT -5
Ummm...kits are rather expensive. Especially the up-keep when you beat the shit out of them as Bonham usually did. And I've seen quite a few live performances, which is where I formulated that opinion from. Noticed it on their studio stuff. He's a big guy. It's understandable that he's going to be a forceful drummer. But power alone does not great drumming make. On their studio recordings(that I'm familiar with), it seriously sounds like he has all of his drum mics under water. Terrible terrible drum sound. A lot of drummers have skill. Hell, the guy from Blink 182 is actually a pretty good drummer. Bonham just played loud and yes, obnoxiously. That and being any member of Led Zeppelin will get you some notice. I'm sure dying helps too. I think he would've gotten a better drum sound had he eased off the skins a bit...maybe moved back or something. He had the reach to do it, too. But he didn't. And though I don't own a drum set, I do play. I'm not sure where you were going with that, to be honest with you. I can only critique someone's playing if I'm familiar with their instrument? Good news for me, I guess, being as I know my way around guitar, bass, piano and drums. Anyway, my point is...I'm not attacking his skill or lack thereof, but more but his technique coupled with what I can only assume to be bad mic placement. I think John Bonham just wanted to stand out. I can't imagine why else he (or any other self-respecting drummer) would want their drums to sound like that. Add that all up and to me it spells bad drumming. I've seen a lot of would-be-decent drummers fuck everything up by trying to stand out. From what I've seen, I can gather that Bonham, while having the necessary skills it takes to keep a beat, wasn't a tight drummer. Too much flash, where you can see him stumble here and there. Compare him to any of the following and see what I mean... Bill Bruford Max Weinberg Jack Irons Phil Selway Danny Carey As a drummer and a professional recording engineer, I have to say that you have lost your mind for typing the above statement. 1. Bonham is the most sampled drummer in hip hop/dance/techno history. That is a fact mostly by his sound but also for his technical skill. If you would listen he has some nice double stroke accents as slight diddles on the upbeat and not the down beat which takes a timing genius to make it that tight. It wasn't a matter of trying to be different either as Phil Collins, Keith Moon, and Mitch Mitchell were pretty close in tonality to his drums as well. 2. As an engineer, the fact that you think that Page's engineering of the drums is "underwater" shows you how limited your views are on the spectrum of sound he was able to achieve on limited technology. The first record was done on a four track reel to reel and it still sounds more killer than most new bands with Pro Tools set up. Now, most of the sound is in the mics and what you do with them and the fact that Page was able to experiment with room micing of drums is light years ahead of Albini and Dave Friedmann. 3. Too much flash? And just what the hell do you call that wankery Yes Bill Bruford or Danny Carey for F's sake? Danny Carey just drum solos over most of Tool's music and he plays with sample bads that have multiple rhythmical patterns going. So I could say that since he isn't actually playing those patterns, he sucks right? I mean come on, you just listed off two drummers that most drummers would say lack soul much in the same way that Satriani does on the guitar. Get real, dude. And if you could play around on the drums you would see that A) you will never achieve the style, sound, or technical prowess of Bonham and B) you wouldn't be so quick to point out what a bad ass you are. |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Apr 18, 2006 14:50:56 GMT -5
Dude, Jack Irons sucks. SUCKS.
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Apr 18, 2006 14:51:51 GMT -5
How can Jones be "too porno" whenever you listen to Tool? Have you heard the wahs they used on "Lateralus" and the new song?
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Post by Thorngrub on Apr 18, 2006 14:54:57 GMT -5
Mmmm . . . porno
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Post by Galactus on Apr 18, 2006 14:55:52 GMT -5
Also as a drummer and part time sound engineer, skvor's right.
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Post by Thorngrub on Apr 18, 2006 15:13:45 GMT -5
Well, as for me, whenever I see Bonzo @ the kit on that Zep dvd that came out last year,
doin' his MOby Dick solo, My. Jaw. Drops. & Soul. Shatters into a billion amazed smiles.
If that solo don't take all . . . I mean, the proof's in the pudding (so to speak).
We could analyze "style" over technique over strength vs ability, standing too close or not far back enough from the kit, over- or under-whelming the band (for attention or the lack thereof) until the cows came home with blue faces.
In the end . . . . (at least in this rocker's analysis) . . . rock'n'roll defies categorization, analysis, and even fackin comprehension. Either the shit ROCKS, or it don't.
I think its fair to say the Ears of History have judged Led Zeppelin to qualify in the "rockin" dept; and this Judgegment's scales have tipped so far to the right in their favour, that no amount of bitchin', whinin', or mewlin' about "who's better than whom" or which flavour of meringue-creampuff is preferred atop one's particular band-brand, is goan make a lickety -split of difference.
Bonzo - John Bonham (may he r.i.p. in his own vomit notwithstanding) - is the heaviest of the heavyweights (earned it he did), which is not to say he is the "best", but rather, his status as a LEGEND in the history of rock drumming is, as they say, secured.
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Post by melon1 on Apr 18, 2006 15:21:18 GMT -5
Well, as for me, whenever I see Bonzo @ the kit on that Zep dvd that came out last year,
doin' his MOby Dick solo, My. Jaw. Drops. & Soul. Shatters into a billion amazed smiles.
If that solo don't take all . . . I mean, the proof's in the pudding (so to speak).
Amen brutha! Right on, thorny. Couldn't have said it better myself. Exactly how I feel about that very solo. Solos such as that renew my interest in listening to drum solos once in a while.
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Post by Thorngrub on Apr 18, 2006 15:23:31 GMT -5
Man, drum solos such as that renew my interest in being fucking alive.
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Post by melon1 on Apr 18, 2006 15:30:29 GMT -5
Word. I dig.
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Apr 18, 2006 15:59:33 GMT -5
The closest thing I think I have ever seen to Bonham is Dave Grohl. That guy is a fantastic drummer.
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Post by Thorngrub on Apr 18, 2006 16:11:20 GMT -5
What -? You ain't seen RUSH yet -?
Oh: wait. You said "closest". (almost forgot): Peart leaves EVERYONE leagues behind in his dust. . . .
;b
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Apr 18, 2006 16:20:04 GMT -5
I don't know man, I've seen Peart and love him, but Brann from Mastodon and Tim from Primus gave him a pretty big run for his money.
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Post by Thorngrub on Apr 18, 2006 16:29:03 GMT -5
Tim from Primus I'll give ya;
but I saw Mastodon once . . . & didn't bother to stay till the end of their set.
PELICAN, now that's more my style.
Didn't even notice the drummer in mastodon, really.
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