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Post by kmc on Oct 20, 2006 10:32:22 GMT -5
Appetite is not perfect but it is 5 stars. Same as Nevermind.
I still only know of a few perfect albums. A Love Supreme by Coltrane comes to mind.
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Post by Kensterberg on Oct 20, 2006 10:43:12 GMT -5
Nevermind is a bunch better than Appetite ... In fact, I'd give Nevermind five stars, though I'd probably reserve that "iconic" status for either Unplugged in NYC or In Utero. You do need to be familiar with all three if you're at all interested in nineties rock, particularly American rock.
A Love Supreme is perfect, you're right. And Phil was also right when he mentioned Kind of Blue a while back. I've never heard anyone disagree with that assessment, even people who don't know a thing about jazz.
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Thinking about it, I'd say that Appetite is only about a three star album, but it is also an iconic recording. That is, much like Pet Sounds, it's one of those records that is deeply flawed but is also essential to understanding rock and roll's evolution. But by that standard, I think you've got to rate all three of Nirvana's major lable releases as iconic. They were simply the biggest (best?) band of their era, and all three of those records are essential.
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Post by luke on Oct 20, 2006 10:58:27 GMT -5
"Deeply flawed?" The only time the album approaches that territory is "I Think About You." And even that song's better than, say, "Territorial Pissings."
Five stars, Holzman. And iconic, too.
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Post by Galactus on Oct 20, 2006 11:05:44 GMT -5
On Nirvana, I'd say that Nevermind is iconic moreso then In Utero, even if you consider IU a better album (I don't) but there's just no getting around that Nevermind was the last album that "changed everything". With that the industry begain this decline into a market where I don't think it's possible to make that huge of an impact anymore. Nevermind is five stars and iconic. All three Nirvana albums proper are five star albums.
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Post by Thorngrub on Oct 20, 2006 11:10:06 GMT -5
I'll give Appetite 5 stars. And hell, if rock'n'roll is all about the flaws & raw improvised flash w/dirty soloes, I guess you may have a point in considering Appetite perfect. There's quantum rock'n'roll logic in there somewhere
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Post by kmc on Oct 20, 2006 13:34:51 GMT -5
I am still mulling over the Pet Sounds is deeply flawed argument that Holzman put forth...
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Post by Galactus on Oct 20, 2006 13:42:11 GMT -5
I missed that. Dude, you're really gonna have to explain what's "deeply flawed" about Pet Sounds.
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Post by kmc on Oct 20, 2006 13:52:05 GMT -5
Maybe Pet Sounds is too perfect?
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Post by rockysigman on Oct 20, 2006 13:55:53 GMT -5
In Utero is the better album, but I don't see how anyone could argue that it's more iconic than Nevermind. Nevermind is probably the most iconic album of the '90s.
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Post by Kensterberg on Oct 20, 2006 14:00:24 GMT -5
What's deeply flawed about Pet Sounds? How about the fact that it's so sugary that you can get cavities from repeated listening?
Honestly, I haven't listened to Pet Sounds in like a decade or so, and don't currently have access to the LP, so I won't be able to enlighten you as to all the problems with the record right now.
If one of you guys wants to set me up w/access (via YouSendIt or whatever), I'll give it another listen and then post (in excrutiating detail) my analysis of the album.
For now, I'll just stand by my "deeply flawed" comment.
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As for Appetite for Destruction ... deeply flawed is charitable. G'n'R (IMHO) were just a step removed from hair metal, and it shows in the production and half-finished songwriting (Axle apparently couldn't be bothered with finishing Sweet Child of Mine, for example, which ends sounding like he and the rest of the band were literally asking "how the hell do we end this thing?" while repeating "where do we go now" and wrapping it up with a generic jam that almost undoes the rest of the tune). Also, Axle's self-involved whining cat-in-a-blender vocals, well, they just bug the hell out of me. (See also Zeppelin, Led, and Lee, Geddy, for further examples of singers who would be much better off if they'd just quit squeeling and sing naturally).
I'll give it iconic status, but AfD is no where near a five star album, let alone perfect.
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Post by Kensterberg on Oct 20, 2006 14:01:48 GMT -5
And in retrospect, I've got to agree that Nevermind is the obvious iconic Nirvana (and nineties) album.
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Post by Galactus on Oct 20, 2006 14:06:12 GMT -5
What's deeply flawed about Pet Sounds? How about the fact that it's so sugary that you can get cavities from repeated listening? Honestly, I haven't listened to Pet Sounds in like a decade or so, and don't currently have access to the LP, so I won't be able to enlighten you as to all the problems with the record right now. If one of you guys wants to set me up w/access (via YouSendIt or whatever), I'll give it another listen and then post (in excrutiating detail) my analysis of the album. For now, I'll just stand by my "deeply flawed" comment. ******************** As for Appetite for Destruction ... deeply flawed is charitable. G'n'R (IMHO) were just a step removed from hair metal, and it shows in the production and half-finished songwriting (Axle apparently couldn't be bothered with finishing Sweet Child of Mine, for example, which ends sounding like he and the rest of the band were literally asking "how the hell do we end this thing?" while repeating "where do we go now" and wrapping it up with a generic jam that almost undoes the rest of the tune). Also, Axle's self-involved whining cat-in-a-blender vocals, well, they just bug the hell out of me. (See also Zeppelin, Led, and Lee, Geddy, for further examples of singers who would be much better off if they'd just quit squeeling and sing naturally). I'll give it iconic status, but AfD is no where near a five star album, let alone perfect. I don't even know you anymore. |
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Post by luke on Oct 20, 2006 14:12:32 GMT -5
As for Appetite for Destruction ... deeply flawed is charitable. G'n'R (IMHO) were just a step removed from hair metal, and it shows in the production and half-finished songwriting (Axle apparently couldn't be bothered with finishing Sweet Child of Mine, for example, which ends sounding like he and the rest of the band were literally asking "how the hell do we end this thing?" while repeating "where do we go now" and wrapping it up with a generic jam that almost undoes the rest of the tune). Also, Axle's self-involved whining cat-in-a-blender vocals, well, they just bug the hell out of me. (See also Zeppelin, Led, and Lee, Geddy, for further examples of singers who would be much better off if they'd just quit squeeling and sing naturally). I'll give it iconic status, but AfD is no where near a five star album, let alone perfect. Didn't you have a mohawk in the 80s? Guys with mohawks in the 80s aren't allowed to review AFD. And that's the best part of SCOM, man. |
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Post by Kensterberg on Oct 20, 2006 14:13:31 GMT -5
Ah, I'm just in a pissy mood today ... I'm gonna go find some lunch ...
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Post by Kensterberg on Oct 20, 2006 14:18:20 GMT -5
Yeah Luke, I had a mohawk just four or so years before AFD. We would've beat the hell out of Axle and his hair mousse if he'd shown up in Minnesota then. Fucking poser. ... Axle couldn't handle the midwest, that's why he had to run out to Cali to be a pretty boy.  Hey! I still can't stand Axle Rose, even after (almost) twenty years ... I was always cool with Slash and Izzy Stradlin, though. If Izzy had been the lead singer, I'd have probably loved G'n'R. Of course that means they would've been a more Rolling Stones influenced sloppy-rock kind of band, so they probably wouldn't have sold nearly as many discs. But hey, who can argue that the world would be better off if Axle Rose had never become a star? |
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