JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Nov 26, 2005 14:24:00 GMT -5
Jesus was alright. He was a good guy. The rest of the institutional machine that has risen up around him is not worth much faith. I think Jesus would be dismayed to see us casting him for as a symbol of purified Goodness. He would be shocked and disgusted. Why? because taking ANYTHING as a symbol of purified Goodness stops you from thinking, stops you from questioning, and the only means to developing enough responsibility to look at the world and all its complexities as a mature human being is by being questioning. Jesus would be thoroughly dismayed by the state of Christianity today. He was a guide, nothing more, nothing less. Rit,you say such things with so much authority...and yet it doesn't take a genius to read Jesus' own words. He said He was God. What else do you need? It must be nice to whip up your own idea of who/what Jesus was and then run with it, completely disregarding what the gospels have to say about the matter (and by proxy what Jesus Himself said). If you want to dismiss the gospels as fabrications, I suppose that's your right. But I don't know how you can expect anyone who accepts the gospels as revealed truth to be anything other than offended by some of the things you say. But then again, it doesn't seem as if you're really interested in much more than getting your established opinions out there for all to see. You've already made your decision and rejected Christ's divinity. Not much more I could really say to you on the subject, is there? |
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JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Nov 26, 2005 14:25:22 GMT -5
 goodness. you speak like a child. [expletive expression made as a result of anger and frustration with the above quoted post has been deleted by the author] I'm out. See ya. |
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Post by Rit on Nov 26, 2005 14:29:47 GMT -5
leave then, bitch.
you've done nothing but arrogantly proclaim all sorts of bullshit like you think you're making sense.
you're a flake.
and it's a shame, coz i respect your intelligence.. some days.
jeeezus.
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Post by phil on Nov 26, 2005 14:38:39 GMT -5
Good to see you jump back into the discussion, but I still am waiting for you to answer my question...Where does the "internal power" you spoke of come from and why doesn't everyone have it in equal portions?
Jac ~ You must be refering to this paragraph ...
The Messiah who was supposed to be embodied inside each of us (by reading or hearing individualy about those myths) became the Messiah – embodied inside ONE man – an historical figure and the total embodiment of God. So instead of becoming aware or our own internal power of moral and spiritual transformation (salvation), humanity had to turn to a vain and impossible quest for salvation outside ourselves.
Each human has inside of him/her the capacity to think (conscience), to learn (intellect), to better himself and the world we live in ...
Now I don't know if we got a soul and if we do, how it got there...
After all, only those who believe in an Afterlife need a soul
Like you cannot prove that there is a God and I cannot prove that there isn't ...
The thing is that I do not care if there is a God or not ...
What I do care about is how to become a better person for myself and the people I live with and how I can(in my small insignificant way)leave this earth a better place than when I came in ...
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Post by Nepenthe on Nov 26, 2005 14:40:22 GMT -5
Jac I agree, I give God credit for every single thing on this earth. The air we breath, the very fact that we are alive. I think that was the point Jesus was making. Jesus/God, does not like lazy people. He likes thinkers and doers. Those that put an effort out to better themselves and mankind.
The problem with many is.....they think that humans can do it all on their own, WITHOUT God. Well if that were the case why isn't it being done today then? Why is the state of the world the way it is.......?
uh huh........
KMC and Rit, you can swipe at Christianity all you like, I too agree that there are many out there that are hypocritical. This was foretold countless times in the Bible.
The book of Amos: "The famine of the end times is not for bread or water, it is for HEARING the WORD OF THE LORD."
The great apostasy....many countless times it is written that "many will come in my (Christ's) name.....
False prophets and "preachers" are mentioned countless times.
So what is the message here? Ask..seek...find...
You DO have to think for yourself. You have to search for truth. It is a personal relationship with God.
But I will tell you this, what do you think the state of the world would be WITHOUT Christianity or any other type of Faith? Have you ever considered the state of a nation that outlaws religion or only allows "certain" types of religion on a historical basis?
uh huh....
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Post by phil on Nov 26, 2005 14:41:45 GMT -5
If you don't believe that Jesus is God
then we are speaking from two different worlds
that will never be reconciled
And this is precisely why there cannot be a discussion !!
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Post by Nepenthe on Nov 26, 2005 14:43:15 GMT -5
Good to see you jump back into the discussion, but I still am waiting for you to answer my question...Where does the "internal power" you spoke of come from and why doesn't everyone have it in equal portions?
Jac ~ You must be refering to this paragraph ... The Messiah who was supposed to be embodied inside each of us (by reading or hearing individualy about those myths) became the Messiah – embodied inside ONE man – an historical figure and the total embodiment of God. So instead of becoming aware or our own internal power of moral and spiritual transformation (salvation), humanity had to turn to a vain and impossible quest for salvation outside ourselves. Each human has inside of him/her the capacity to think (conscience), to learn (intellect), to better himself and the world we live in ... Now I don't know if we got a soul and if we do, how it got there... After all, only those who believe in an Afterlife need a soul Like you cannot prove that there is a God and I cannot prove that there isn't ... The thing is that I do not care if there is a God or not ... What I do care about is how to become a better person for myself and the people I live with and how I can(in my small insignificant way)leave this earth a better place than when I came in ... Well hip hip hooray!!!! Phil has FINALLY stated what he cares about and what he believes. Took you long enough. And when you say "the people I live with" does that mean your family? Your friends? Mankind as a whole? |
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Post by phil on Nov 26, 2005 14:44:26 GMT -5
Geez ! Take a few minutes to write something
and see what happens ... LoLoLoL !!
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Post by Nepenthe on Nov 26, 2005 14:45:54 GMT -5
If you don't believe that Jesus is God
then we are speaking from two different worlds
that will never be reconciledAnd this is precisely why there cannot be a discussion !! Phil, I can discuss this with you. You see, my father is not sure if there is a God or not. The man will give you the shirt off his back though. He is one of the most honorable men I know. |
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Post by shin on Nov 26, 2005 14:46:57 GMT -5
I'm God.
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Post by Nepenthe on Nov 26, 2005 14:59:26 GMT -5
You see, this is where Jac and I are different. I have met many atheists that are far more honorable than the "Puritan". No offense Jac.  But seriously, my own ancestors were the same way. They were Quakers, and they DID NOT push conversion. They sat down and had talks with the Native Americans, they actually "SAW" how much they actually had in common even though the Faith was "defined" differently. And they never pushed conversion onto non-believers either. I myself have always felt this way. Is it a sign? Is it in the blood? I only found out about my Quaker roots a few months ago. And here is the kicker, when reading some of the letters written and left behind by my family, "some" of the Quakers eventually took on the "Puritan" attitude. They parted ways and there was a split in the denomination. My point? Something like this does not happen accidentally or coincidentally. I truly see it as a "sign" for me. As well as many many other situations in my life that have occurred. |
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Post by kmc on Nov 26, 2005 15:41:18 GMT -5
I have yet to take a swipe at Christianity. I do take a swipe at the notion that Jesus was not a humanist due to some twisted, biased Americanist version of what the word means. No, Jesus was not ONLY a humanist, but I argue that his message was intended to help man make his life better NOW and not for future salvation.
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JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Nov 26, 2005 15:43:31 GMT -5
but to argue that his message was not intended to help man make his life better NOW and not for future salvation. ...
I never made that argument.
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JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Nov 26, 2005 15:46:23 GMT -5
Salvation is not a "future" issue, either. It is here and now, in the same "present" you speak of as "NOW".
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Post by kmc on Nov 26, 2005 15:57:15 GMT -5
Salvation is a future issue where I was brought up. Man works toward salvation, he does not live in it. Catholics don't believe in present, current Salvation, at least not in any Protestant understanding of the fantasy.
Today, I personally believe in neither present nor future versions of any such thing.
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