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Post by Ayinger on Sept 14, 2009 20:38:27 GMT -5
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JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Sept 14, 2009 20:42:27 GMT -5
"She's like the wind..."
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Post by RocDoc on Sept 14, 2009 23:49:37 GMT -5
'dumb' you say?
an interesting opinion.
did you ever hear him sing it live, jac?
i actually thought it was a pretty intense and sincere slice-of-life vignette.
some poetic license, sure, but it represents his life, NYC, gutter-crawlin' stoners and junkies and all.
and i knew/know a bunch of lives that went that way...stupidly, but yeah, like that.
is it strictly a 1970s big city urban thing?
i don't know, you tell me.
so where and in what way do you say it loses you?
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Post by Ayinger on Sept 16, 2009 22:00:36 GMT -5
w00ps,,,,,might be on another celeb stretch here again like we were back in June: Mary Travers (Peter, Paul, & Mary) kicked it today.
Larry Gelbart
Jim Carroll
Pat Swayze
Jay Leno (career-wise but then to me it's been years ago he was toast....)
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Post by RocDoc on Sept 16, 2009 22:33:39 GMT -5
henry gibson, r.i.p.
~
jac, i give you WAY too much credit.
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Post by maarts on Oct 5, 2009 2:58:58 GMT -5
Gracias Mercedes!
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Post by Thorngrub on Oct 5, 2009 9:43:35 GMT -5
Well, for what its worth - - imo, Jim Carroll is a real poet, and wrote circles around Lou Reed (in terms of poetry, strictly). "People Who Died" is a stone cold classic--and no, Jim didn't need an 'exciting' death to immortalize himself as an added refrain to his most popular song. His life itself was exciting, and accomplished, enough. Author of "Life At The Movies" and "The Basketball Diaries", Jim Carroll could have carved a small niche in poetic history out for himself on the strength of those books alone. But when he went ahead and formed a rock band, he cemented himself as the real "bad boy poet" of rock'n'roll--his album CATHOLIC BOY remains to this day an enduring lyrical work and a stunning addition to rock's legacy. I was lucky enough to score the original vinyl of CATHOLIC BOY just the other day, right after Jim passed away. I've been spinning it ever since, and I'll be damned if every song on there hasn't stood the test of time. From the heavy groove of "Wicked Gravity" to the wry, pop nihilsm of "Three Sisters", Jim Carroll had it all; the sardonic voice, dripping with suggestiveness, the acid tongue that penned lyrics on the razor's edge of street desperation and feral holiness, and thanks to the encouragement of his girlfriend-at-the-time, patti smith, he formed a wicked cool band that went on to pen such catchy classics as People Who Died (one of my favorite rock songs of all time) to brooding heavy hitters like "It's Too Late" and "When The City Drops Into The Night", lurid pieces of rock'n'roll poetry that present the listener with a street-real theater of characters and stories that all have a ring of truth to them borne of Jim's own exploits across the back alleys of NYC. He will be sorely missed even if he hadn't released a proper rock album in a while. His CD of spoken word pieces MANTIS remains, however, a testament to this poet's true genius, the ability to manipulate words in a way that brought the reader face to face with the bared honesty of a soul redeemed through pain in the streets. (Jim you may not have been Lou Reed but then again that was never your ambition.) Lou Reed never published actual books of real poetry. Jim Carroll, you are a real poet. And as such, you are still here with us, even if we must relegate you, for the time being, to the rogue's gallery of ghosts immortalized in your classic song. R.I.P. Jim Carroll  |
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Post by RocDoc on Oct 5, 2009 10:27:07 GMT -5
*stands and applauds*
it's obvious that jac's criticisms were from when he was in another 'space', but yeah, reading 'people who died' in a written form without having listened to carroll inhabit the song (the way i had countless times from a treasured copy of a live show i recorded 30 years ago) with actual pain and regret in his voice....i suppose, yeah, just read the words and their gonna sound far less than what they are.
it's just a great fucking song and i included it on jam tapes for friends of mine manymany times.
this guy was a contemporary of ours and yeah, i knew people who 'went' in ways approximating what he sang about.
very easy to relate...maybe it's just one of those 'you hadda be there'-things.
'be there' meaning in that era.
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Post by RocDoc on Oct 5, 2009 13:51:42 GMT -5
yes, the dizzyingly revolving 'space' in your head.
Nothing "obvious" at all. It's a stupid song. I said it then, from whatever "space" I was in then, and I say it now, from the "space" I am currently occupying.
jac, you attacked from the 'read-it-on-a-page' angle...and you think EVERY last lyric in every song you love listening to is goddamn shakespearean in scope? fuck no.
lyrics are not going to succeed in a stand-alone situation, apart from their music...shit, i'm completely agreeing with you there.
but as a sincere heartfelt song jim carroll sang, no fucking WAY can it be flatout characterized as 'stupid'.
you don't WANT to hear it sung with the emotions he DID involve, fine.
i just though 'mean jac' was somewhat gone and 'good jac''s brain would register than performance and words on a page are unfair comparisons.
he's back eh?
well, oops.
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Post by Thorngrub on Oct 5, 2009 17:46:05 GMT -5
reading 'people who died' in a written form without having listened to carroll inhabit the song (the way i had countless times from a treasured copy of a live show i recorded 30 years ago) with actual pain and regret in his voice.... it's just a great fucking song and i included it on jam tapes for friends of mine manymany times. this guy was a contemporary of ours and yeah, i knew people who 'went' in ways approximating what he sang about. very easy to relate...maybe it's just one of those 'you hadda be there'-things. 'be there' meaning in that era. Roc, perfectly stated man. I know as well as you that People Who Died is, well, fuck, as classic, and as punk, as it fuckin gets, period. So you know what-? Don't let ol' JAC get to you like this. He's obviously off his looper, probably needs more meds, what are those prescription candies he's on-?--GOOD'N'PLENTIES, ya that's em. He's just operating on a severe deficit of GOOD'N'PLENTIES, is all. I mean, its gotta be. NOBODY fucks with People Who Died, and retains any shred of conceivable dignity, around here. |
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Post by RocDoc on Oct 6, 2009 17:48:18 GMT -5
jac, no-one's pretending to be psychiatrist here.
clues given by your (written) behavior make every single person conclude something about you.
there's deductive and inductive reasoning going on among any 2 people who interact.
yours so often is just fucking ugly.
but no, not always...when the bug ain't up yer ass.
your behavior requires no psych degree whatsoever.
makes for interesting people-watching...but some here are participants in this teeny tiny forum, this is in close quarters y'see.
and we could walk off and say 'you know how he is, don't you?', appended with the lithuanian saying 'duok durniui kelia' (effectively 'yield the road to the dumbfuck') and you go ranting on your way, obscuring all else.
ok, i'll presume to say your error here is in calling this song 'stupid'.
see, i feel that that kind of absolute denigation of anything is felt as a slap in the face to its sincerest admirers.
that completely makes sense...but only if there's the least bit of respect for the one insisting on saying that.
i fucking TRIED to find a reason for you to rationally back down just a half step on this insult you insist to throw around.
you don't wanna. clearly.
'don't like' it all that you want to. THAT is your right.
public declaration of 'stupid' this, stupid that, about things someone greatly admires IS going to be taken with offense.
unless the presumption is no-one gives a shit what you say, allowing the dumbfuck the road to say whatever hit he's compelled to say.
see, we DO agree, you see, that lyrics often are of the most minimal importance to liking a song. for you. you said that.
and i agree.
but for that reason there is NOTHING backing up your irrationality in ridiculing the words first as your prime objective in declaring 'STUPID, prithee, i sayeth of that song!'..
that's all i was trying to get across.
dislike it, don't be a dick about it.
we're not louee.
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JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Oct 7, 2009 10:57:19 GMT -5
Geez...all I did was call him an unsavory fellow.
Heebadee heebadee.
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Post by RocDoc on Oct 7, 2009 15:03:30 GMT -5
NOW it sure looks that way...delete and*cough*delete.
it's fine and alrighty, jac.
just to give us something to observe, eh?
do what ya feel ya gotta...and we'll conclude what we will.
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JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Oct 7, 2009 16:48:00 GMT -5
Who is this "we'll"?
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Post by RocDoc on Oct 7, 2009 17:00:05 GMT -5
who?
anyone else who's witnessed the way you've staged the manner in which you just whitewashed your comments to now portray yourself as pure as the driven snow...
ah, the tree falling in the woods thing?
whatever jac.
don't defend or apologize.
DO take the offense, by all means.
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