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Post by Paul on Jun 12, 2006 9:36:59 GMT -5
Depends on what they do with it. For instance, Pearl Jam took Going To California's basic riff and soncially expanded it into the dynamic (and excellent) song "Given To Fly". This was a good thing. I was just about to mention this song as an example of a "rip-off"; you beat me to it Thonrs  I thought it was kinda funny when Robert Plant opened for Pearl Jam a few months ago (December 2005?), and Pearl Jam covered "Going To California" w/ Plant and Vedder taking turns singing. Throughout all of rock, every band I listen to has "borrowed" from someone else...It seems like everytime I listen to music, I'm like "wow, that kinda sounds like so and so...I can hear the influence".....I reckon what I'm saying is that paying homage is cool, being a rip off (Creed) is lame. Two of my favorite bands; the Kinks and Pearl Jam, borrow heavily from others before them; yet put their own unique spin on the music so it's not a rip-off. |
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 12, 2006 17:16:29 GMT -5
I know Question #1 or 2 havent been fully answered yet, but there is an issue that keeps preying on my mind. The issue of indie label versus major label. I'm especially interested in Indie lables during the 80s whent he corporate rock boom really took off. If anyone has any good sources I could research on this topic, I'd appreciate you sharing them with me.
I look at bands like The Replacements (Sire), REM (IRS) and Camper van beethoven (IRS) who were considered the best bands of the college rock radio era of the 80s and wonder how they avoided the rappings of corporate rock...
So basically
QUESTION #3:
is "What is the defintion of selling out, and does that automatically make a band worse?"
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Post by Paul on Jun 13, 2006 7:44:41 GMT -5
^^^^
Don't know if you've heard about it / read it already, but if not, you should check out a book named 'Our Band Could Be Your LIfe'....its a pretty good run down of the 80's DIY movement, and mentions bands like Sonic Youth, the Replacements, Husker Du, Fugazi, and many more.
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 13, 2006 8:08:52 GMT -5
^^^^ Don't know if you've heard about it / read it already, but if not, you should check out a book named 'Our Band Could Be Your LIfe'....its a pretty good run down of the 80's DIY movement, and mentions bands like Sonic Youth, the Replacements, Husker Du, Fugazi, and many more. Yeah, I own it--it's been a year or two since I've read it though. A big deal was made of Sonic Youth going to a major label. I think in the 80s (and even into the early 90s)there was still enough naivete (sp?) about major record labels that bands thought they could join one--maybe just out of curiousity--and it not have an adverse affect on them. I think in today's corporate consumer culture bands who start off with a DIY ethic should have enough examples of why its best to stay DIY. I think today its pretty evident that its nearly impossible to go up against the major record companies and not be sucked into their evil bullshit. |
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Post by kmc on Jun 13, 2006 8:28:57 GMT -5
Because obviously, Sonic Youth totally started sucking once they joined a major label?
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Post by Thorngrub on Jun 13, 2006 10:54:50 GMT -5
QUESTION #3: is "What is the defintion of selling out, and does that automatically make a band worse?" "Selling Out" is a concept entirely relegated to the delusional bitterness of those who can only squint through the narrow apertures of the blinders they wear. And NO, it absolutely does NOT automatically make a band worse. ~ There is good music. There is bad music. Each of which are abundantly to be found in commercial music; in "sell outs"; in underground music; and even w/ street corner musicianship. ~ Hence, I find the entire "Sell Out/Commercial" argument utterly insipid, and a reflection NOT of the music it is AIMED at criticizing; but rather, it is more of a reflection of the LIMITATIONS and/or impositions of the LISTENER to said music. ~ Example: Someone who claims that the only "good" Smashing Pumpkins record is GISH has not revealed one iota of the subsequent Pumpkin catalog's actual worth; rather, they have only revealed that *they themselves* are nothing but a self-aggrandizing, petulant, narrowminded little poser bitch ass punk. |
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Post by Paul on Jun 13, 2006 11:00:12 GMT -5
Because obviously, Sonic Youth totally started sucking once they joined a major label? I like SY's albums better on the Geffen....Dirty, EJST&NS, Murray Street, and Sonic Nurse are top notch. Going to see them this Thursday at the 9:30 Club! |
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Post by Paul on Jun 13, 2006 11:02:54 GMT -5
Neil Young and Pearl Jam are two great examples of how to be mainstream, yet maintain credibility. Both are hosehold names, but both have done their own thing over the years, and haven't compromised their visiion for the sake of MTV, radio, etc...
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Post by luke on Jun 13, 2006 11:47:34 GMT -5
"Selling out" is about compromising ethics, not "going mainstream." If the goal of Sonic Youth was to get on a major label because they needed more money to fill out their sound and do what they wanted, then they didn't sell out by going major. But if Minor Threat songs started appearing in Pepsi commercials, then yes, Dischord and everyone involved in it would be huge fucking sell-outs.
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Post by kmc on Jun 13, 2006 12:33:28 GMT -5
Because obviously, Sonic Youth totally started sucking once they joined a major label? I like SY's albums better on the Geffen....Dirty, EJST&NS, Murray Street, and Sonic Nurse are top notch. Going to see them this Thursday at the 9:30 Club! Paul, late show or early? |
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Post by riley on Jun 13, 2006 12:37:31 GMT -5
"Selling out" is about compromising ethics, not "going mainstream." If the goal of Sonic Youth was to get on a major label because they needed more money to fill out their sound and do what they wanted, then they didn't sell out by going major. But if Minor Threat songs started appearing in Pepsi commercials, then yes, Dischord and everyone involved in it would be huge fucking sell-outs. Sonic Youth never sold out. They were every bit as gratuitously noisy and often unlistenable regardless of what label had them. |
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Post by riley on Jun 13, 2006 12:37:54 GMT -5
I think KMC is about to put someone else on notice.  |
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Post by kmc on Jun 13, 2006 12:42:54 GMT -5
Riles, after all we've shared, how could you?
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Post by riley on Jun 13, 2006 12:49:41 GMT -5
I cried a bit as I typed that actually. I knew it would at least a short term impact on our relationship Ken.
It's pretty well documented that I have a love hate relationship with Sonic Youth. I love trying to get into their music and I hate that I've never been particularly successful. Huge respect though.
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Post by kmc on Jun 13, 2006 13:29:16 GMT -5
It's no sweat. I was actually listening to my XM radio the other day and Sloan came on, and I totally thought of you. I am on the same boat with Sloan as you are with Sonic Youth. Still, huge respect.
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