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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 22, 2006 11:11:32 GMT -5
Chuck Klosterman (or maybe someone before him) siad the the best career move is to die. Neil Young said its better to burn out than to fade away.
But I always like seeing a band/artist evolve. Sometimes they go into a new direction that turns out brilliant, but more so often they try to cling onto a latest fad and end up shooting themselves in the foot.
Here's some career moves, tell me if you think they were good or bad?
Bob Dylan going electric.
Donovan going psychedelic.
Blondie going disco.
The BeeGees going disco.
Elvis being drafted into the Army.
The Rolling Stones going country.
DeeDee Ramone going Rap.
Beastie Boys going Rap.
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 22, 2006 12:26:54 GMT -5
Bob Dylan going electric. It was good. It was a nice F.U. to the left-wing folk wankers who were starting to scare him with their "clinginess" and it allowed him to tap into more of his potential.
Donovan going psychedelic. Donovan's move from folk to psychedelia ("Mellow Yellow" "Sunshine Superman" etc) actually seemed to be a natural progression that was born from his expeerimentalism in Eastern philosophy and dailiances with mind expansion.
Blondie going disco. Going from Punk to Disco seems impossible, but Blondie actually also dabbled in New Wave and even Rap. Instead of being remembered as a one-dimensional punk band, they are a band that illustrates the many changing faces that music was undergoing in the late 70s and early 80s.
The BeeGees going disco. This was a great career move for them. They went from being sissies who sung about broken hearts in eunuch-taking-a-healthy-shit falsetto voices to Metrosexual Ladies Men with lots of chest hair and gold chains who sung in eunuch-taking-a-healthy-shit falsetto voices...
Elvis being drafted into the Army. Good thing for his image. When he got out he started doing all those goofy movies and taking drugs.
The Rolling Stones going country. Like Paul McCartney the Stones tried to take in every pop music trend and ride it. They started out by copying the Blues, then they tinkered in Psychedelia, dabbled in country, even went Disco and by the 80s were actually doing pale rip-offs of their own Corproate Rock image. English guys trying to soudn country ala "Wild Horses" and "Flowers on Your Grave" sounds just as ridiculas to me as them trying to go Blues or Disco.
DeeDee Ramone going Rap. Terrible
Beastie Boys going Rap. Good thing, but they got too obsessed with it. They still make good songs today, but their rap/hip hop dance numbers are always the weakest on their albums. They make really great jazz tunes. They should have put the rap crap on the shelf right after Ill Commincation...
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 22, 2006 13:02:27 GMT -5
Dylan going electric was great.
Donovan going is "Psychedelic" is hardly really what I would term as psychedelic, really. To me, psychedelic was Cream or "Piper At The Gates Of Dawn". I have a hard time as qualifying him as "psychedelic" myself.
Blondie going disco was not a shock and they were already 3/4 of the way there on there debut. Here's the deal with Blondie and the other bands like Television or Talking Heads: they did their music without a term or notion to it. Punk came to them, not the other way around.
The BeeGees going disco was alright atleast for defining part of a decade.
Elvis being drafted of course was great because it left a vacuum of people wanting more.
The Rolling Stones going country.......eh more like dabbled in it, really. I think they more just in love with American music altogether. Bluegrass, blues, R and B, and Country being the obvious ones. I think they have just had the misfortune of bad country artists covering their songs.
Never heard Dee Dee do Rap, but it's Dee Dee. He could do whatever he wanted.
Beastie Boys weren't a hardcore band long enough for this to even be a part of the discussion.
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 22, 2006 16:12:40 GMT -5
Dylan going electric was great. Donovan going is "Psychedelic" is hardly really what I would term as psychedelic, really. To me, psychedelic was Cream or "Piper At The Gates Of Dawn". I have a hard time as qualifying him as "psychedelic" myself. Blondie going disco was not a shock and they were already 3/4 of the way there on there debut. Here's the deal with Blondie and the other bands like Television or Talking Heads: they did their music without a term or notion to it. Punk came to them, not the other way around. The BeeGees going disco was alright atleast for defining part of a decade. Elvis being drafted of course was great because it left a vacuum of people wanting more. The Rolling Stones going country.......eh more like dabbled in it, really. I think they more just in love with American music altogether. Bluegrass, blues, R and B, and Country being the obvious ones. I think they have just had the misfortune of bad country artists covering their songs. Never heard Dee Dee do Rap, but it's Dee Dee. He could do whatever he wanted. Beastie Boys weren't a hardcore band long enough for this to even be a part of the discussion. ~If you prefer we can call Donovon's music Psychadelic Pop, along the lines of the Lemon Pipers (Green Tamborine), Tommy james (Crimson & Clover), and Strawberry Alarm Clock. ~Talking Heads, Television, Blondie, etc was called New Wave Rock as early as the mid 70's which distinguished them from Punk. I wouldnt say Blondie was really punk--I would say they were new wave. But I figured most people here would recognize them as punk (even thoughthey really werent) ~good point about Elvis ~Dee Dee made at least one Rap video. It will make you embarrassed to be a white person... ~I think the Beastie Boys hardcore beginnings is crucial to understanding their music. |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 23, 2006 12:02:29 GMT -5
New Wave was a term that was given to so called "punk" bands to make that palatable for the middle American Radio Stations. Most, after seeing "punkers" on the 9 o'clock news wanted to stay away from those people as much as possible. Also, most promoters would not even consider booking a "punk" band after their antics on the road. If you read, "Please Kill Me", the title Punk came first and then "new wave".
Seeing as how most people don't know about the Beastie Boys' beginnings as a hardcore band, I just don't find it to be even close to important. Just me.
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 23, 2006 13:08:21 GMT -5
New Wave was a term that was given to so called "punk" bands to make that palatable for the middle American Radio Stations. Most, after seeing "punkers" on the 9 o'clock news wanted to stay away from those people as much as possible. Also, most promoters would not even consider booking a "punk" band after their antics on the road. If you read, "Please Kill Me", the title Punk came first and then "new wave". You've been reading wikipedia I see...there are some bands that were not punk yet were being called punk. Talking Heads arent punk for instance, yet they played gigs that also had punk bands, so they got lumped in with punk. Same goes for Television, Pere Ube, Modern Lovers, etc. New Wave Rock was a better term to describe these bands than punk. Check out my MySpace blog for more on this. |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 23, 2006 14:51:44 GMT -5
Well, are you gonna give me a link to your blog?
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 23, 2006 15:06:16 GMT -5
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 15:07:48 GMT -5
Also, I just wanted to mention that I don't read wikipedia. Hardly at all. Most of the stuff that I have read on punk rock is from books from the era, old Creem magazines when it was happening and the slew of memoirs from people who actually lived in the era.
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 29, 2006 15:28:17 GMT -5
Also, I just wanted to mention that I don't read wikipedia. Hardly at all. Most of the stuff that I have read on punk rock is from books from the era, old Creem magazines when it was happening and the slew of memoirs from people who actually lived in the era. I agree--I think wikipedia is off too often, there is definately a revisionist thing going on there when it comes to certin things in rock. On the other hand sometimes the revisionists explanation makes more sense. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say...whatever the case New Wave Rock is the term I use to refer to that mid/late 70s stuff: devo, talking heads, pere ubu, televsion, blondie...even the cars. I forget who it was, but one of the members of Televison commented upon hearing the Cars, that they sounded just like a slightly Poppish version themselves (Television)...too bad the Cars image has been tainted by their shitty videos from the 80s, because I think they belong in the same sentence with the rest of the more respected New Wave Rock bands... In fact, chew on this and tell me they dont rawk (cars - "slipaway"): www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=F6627180512F76DC |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 15:34:59 GMT -5
Sorry, I don't participate in you send it. I think it's cool that people do, but it is not something that I personally feel good with doing.
1. Most of the bands that you listed were around before the term "new wave" was even coined. Great bands all of them and really what does it matter what it is labeled? To most it was just rock music back then anyway before we got so enamoured with genrefying everything in the world.
2. Uh, I personally love the Cars videos and the only person who seems to think that their image was tarnished because of it is you. It was an emerging artform that I think most cut a little bit of slack on because, hey, it was an emerging artform. It was still cool no matter what the end result wound up being. I sometimes like the Cars better than Television because they happened to last and make several fantastic records, where Television made a really great one and 2 really good ones.
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 29, 2006 17:51:15 GMT -5
I personally love the Cars videos and the only person who seems to think that their image was tarnished because of it is you. They made some very stupid videos. Should a bands image have any affect on how much youenjoy listening to them? I think it shouldn't, but we are human--and it does. With that said, I cant really say whether I love the Cars more or Televison more. In their heyday I loved them both. |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 29, 2006 18:01:16 GMT -5
They made some stupid videos according to you. To many of us, they were cool, especially the one where Ric Ocasek's head was on the head of a fly and they sold a lot more records because of that than some punk rock ideal.
Honestly, if a band does a bad video, I just say bad video and move on. It really doesn't affect my view of the band.
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