CE Volume 3

[shin]

I agree, it was pretty lame when they were making fun of Republicans, but got better when they started making fun of Democrats.




So let's see here: Hibbard recalled Kerry making a big deal out of getting a medal for a minor wound, even though "boxes" of Purple Hearts were being given away for similar wounds. Also, the Navy concluded that he "deserved" the medal. Again, doesn't this reflect more on the Navy's medal policies than Kerry? A "scrape" or not, flying shrapnel can still kill you a few feet in another direction. Significantly more dangerous than protecting Alabama from the VC, I'd imagine.

[shin]

Somewhat off topic, this is probably the strangest thing I've ever seen. First, some background on who "Ted Sampley" is:

www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/vvajk.html

He apparently runs www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com and is in some form or another behind the SBVfT stuff. He was also one of the main attack dogs against John McCain, calling him a Manchurian Candidate.

Who else does he apparently hate besides Kerry and McCain?

www.usvetdsp.com/story46.htm

You can't even make this stuff up anymore. One of the main bulldogs that goes after the president's opponents also went after his own father.

[strat-0]

That was pretty funny, Doc! I normally skip those things, and they definitely get deleted from my mailboxes immediately, but every now and then there's one worth reading.

But I think you are placing way too much credence in what this group has said about Kerry.

"He had a little scratch on his forearm, and he was holding a piece of shrapnel," recalled Kerry's commanding officer, Lieutenant Commander Grant Hibbard. "People in the office were saying, `I don't think we got any fire,' and there is a guy holding a little piece of shrapnel in his palm." Hibbard said he couldn't be certain whether Kerry actually came under fire on Dec. 2, 1968, the date in questionand that is why he said he asked Kerry questions about the matter.

This stuff comes from some irate veterans who have had a vendetta against Kerry ever since he spoke to the Senate during the Viet Nam War and said some things they didn't like. The facts bear out Kerry's service record and deeds. That's why even the Bush people are staying away from it. They also have distanced themselves from the ad. Jeez, even O'Reily said it was a cheap shot! Boy, did he get some flak from the faithful over that!

But the isue is a diversionary tactic. Frankly, if I were in a foxhole with somebody, I'd prefer to be in there with Kerry, who knows how to load and fire an M-16, than Bush, who might know what shells he prefers for skeet or doves. OK, maybe Bush learned to fire one in the Guard, but we know that Kerry had shit whizzing over his head, and was evidently struck thrice. The hardcore Bush-boosters need to give it up on this one.

[chrisfan]

Here's my thoughts on the Kerry medals issue. To me, the question is this: Is there anyone who is going to base his/her vote on how Kerry got his medals? I'd venture to say no ... at least not anyone with a brain. So who cares? The more time that is spent investigating this, the less timethat is spent talking about things that actually matter in the campaign. Sure, I think it's fair game for Kerry to be taken to task for the claims, given that he's made it a key factor of his candidacy. But It's not a key factor that should sway any votes. So who cares? Instead, I wish that people would start talking about things that could truly matter, like how much it'd cost to give every American Senator's health care plan, and what effects that would have on our healthcare. Or, how exactly are France and Germany jumping on board with us the minute Kerry's hand is placed on the bible on the capitol steps?

[Thorngrub]

I've decided: I really couldn't care less who wins this next election. One runty little US president don't mean squat in the face of 6 Billion Strong growing humanity.

The answers are all in the details, in the microcosmic scale of things (and not in the overall, larger picture exemplified by Politics): It's about how each and every one of us lives our daily lives, that's all.

Go ahead Bush, rule with yer Iron Fist for another 4 measly years, see if I care.

This sentiment stems not from apathy, rather, from merely deciding to act locally while thinking globally. I'm going to tend my own garden and that's that.

*Thorny Runs Off Free To Be He And Me*

*RAZZES EVERY1 IN A GOOFBALL MANEUVER, winks, thinks, and does a double-take, bends down on hands & knees to greet a garden snake*

"Whoa! Check this lil feller out, what a cutie"

[stratman19]

Some catching up to do:

Rocky: I do apologize if this comes across as rather confrontational. Stratman's post was respectful and certainly not malicious.

Nah, it wasn't confrontational Rocky. I had no problem with it. And thanks, btw, for picking up on the fact that my post was not intended to be malicious.

Mary: rocdoc, stratman, anyone else who thinks i'm a pretentious shit...

Stratman, in fact, so far as I can recall, you have never said a single mean word to me and you have never been anything but a model of civility. I enjoy talking to you here, I could give two shits how many degrees you do or don't have.

Mary, I don't think you're a pretentious shit. Perhaps it was just some frustration coming through. At times though, I feel I'm completely out of my league in trying to converse with some of you. I'll work harder at trying to keep up. I also realize I got a little harsh at the end of my last post. I apologize for that. I swear to christ, I can be the biggest dickhead on these boards at times. I enjoy talking to you here too, even as at times I struggle to understand you, and where you're coming from! Anyway, I just wanted to clear that up.

Doc, I found much to like in your post #270. Hit the nail on the head for me in many ways.

[stratman19]

Chrisfan said:

Totally unrelated to the current discussion, but I just wanted to share for any Bush supporters who care ... I had the opportunity yesterday to go to the town hall meeting the president did as part of his campaign swing. It was unbelievably incredible -- as my mom said "I sat there with the President of the United States for longer than I spend in church each week". Jeb was there too, which was just beyond cool for me. But the GOOD news, the BIG news that I have to share from the event is that Karen Hughes is back on the campaign trail ... a month earlier than originally planned. Coherent speech has arrived! :-)

Wow, that's great Chris! How very lucky you were. The President was in my area last week, but I had to work that day, damn it. Had I been off, I'd have surely been there. Great news about Karen Hughes too. Alright!

[stratman19]

Chrisfan said:

This one is just too funny to not share for Rocky and Stratman ... did you guys hear about Kerry's apparent blunder in campaigning in Michigan and Ohio this weekend? Apparently he made a comment about the U of Toledo / Bowling Green football rivalry while in Bowling Green, OH. He ended it saying something about nottaking sides in the greatness of Buckeye football ... not sure if he meant the Buckeye state, or the Ohio State Buckeyes. Then, on the next stop in Michigan, he comments on the same thing, again making reference to how much Ohioans love that Buckeye football ... not realizing what a dumb way to rally a crowd in MICHIGAN that was. Oops.

Yes Rocky, you THINK you can vote for Kerry. But can you REALLY vote for an apparent Ohio State fan?

That's too good Chris! Thanks for passing that along. ;D

[PC]

Governor of my home state (and former mayor of my hometown) resigns due to gay affair

TRENTON, N.J. (Aug. 12) - In a stunning declaration, Gov. James E. McGreevey announced his resignation Thursday and acknowledged that he had an extramarital affair with another man. ''My truth is that I am a gay American,'' he said.

''Shamefully, I engaged in adult consensual affairs with another man, which violates my bonds of matrimony,'' the married father of two said at a news conference. ''It was wrong, it was foolish, it was inexcusable.''

The Democrat said his resignation would be effective Nov. 15.

McGreevey, 47, said that ''it makes little difference that as governor I am gay,'' but added that staying in office and keeping the affair and his sexual orientation secret will leave the governor's office ''vulnerable to rumors, false allegations and threats of disclosure.''

''Given the circumstances surrounding the affair and its likely impact upon my family and my ability to govern, I have decided the right course of action is to resign,'' he said.

McGreevey did not elaborate on what the circumstances were.

The former suburban mayor took office 2 1/2 years ago, and despite inheriting a $5 billion budget deficit, he steadfastly refused to boost income taxes for most New Jerseyans. He instead raised taxes on millionaires, casinos and cigarettes.

But he has been dogged by several scandals involving fund-raising.

Among those caught up in recent scandals were his first chief of staff and former counsel; a top Democratic fund-raiser and former high school classmate; and real estate developer Charles Kushner, McGreevey's biggest campaign contributor, who was charged with trying to thwart a federal campaign-finance investigation by luring a grand jury witness - his own brother-in-law - into a compromising position with a prostitute and sending video and photos to the man's wife.

McGreevey is the second governor to announce his resignation in recent weeks, following the resignation in June of Connecticut GOP Gov. John Rowland amid corruption investigations and threats of impeachment.

McGreevey rose from suburban mayor to state chief executive by his tenacious pursuit of party politics, maintaining a power base days after he narrowly lost to Republican Christie Whitman in 1997.

McGreevey never truly stopped that campaign until he won in November 2001, beating Republican Bret Schundler by 15 percentage points.

Born in Jersey City, McGreevey graduated from Columbia University in 1978. He earned a law degree from Georgetown University in 1981 and a master's degree in education from Harvard University a year later.

After briefly serving as a county prosecutor, McGreevey became a lobbyist for a pharmaceutical company, then a state government official. While in the Legislature, McGreevey voted for Gov. Jim Florio's $2.8 billion tax hike that prompted a voter rebellion against Democrats.

[stratman19]

Punk, I watched his news conference this afternoon. Talk about a bombshell!

[PC]

Dude, what's with all the resigning Governors? First California, then Connecticut, and now New Jersey! Must be a trend or something.

[PC]

Oh, wait. Former Gov. Davis was recalled. My bad.

[stratman19]

There's a lot of corruption in them thar political hills!

[melon1]

I received this via e-mail. Not certain of its accuracy:

Memory jogger

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Senators. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry ( D - MA), and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that .. Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."
- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapon stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

[shin]

No need to jog my memory. I remember clear as crystal that to have said anything otherwise two years ago would have resulted in something a bit more than verbal taunting/slandering from talking head pulpits (the word "unpatriotic" jumps to mind) yet just shy of physical threats. In fact, I recall similar rhetoric on the original CE board. Funny how suddenly being a patriotic Democrat two years ago now means being a flipflopper. Methinks such statements detract from the real issue: not whether or not Saddam was believed to have had WMDs, but the best way to go about dealing with him. Keep in mind: calling off the UN inspections before they were finished was not Kerry's idea. Pushing shoddy intelligence through the OSP was not Hillary's idea. And, oh yeah, none of those people were the ones that decided to go to war. Not their mess. *quack*

PunkChick: You think that's a scandal? The town I was born in, raised in, and now currently reside in has had a gay representative for years! And yet, he hasn't resigned! You've probably heard of him....

But seriously though...I'm wondering why him being gay is what that article lists instead of why he even revealed being gay in the first place: he's going to apparently be charged with sexual harassment by the person believed to be his lover, an Israeli man he "met" on a trip and then controversially hired to be his homeland security advisor even though his wasn't cleared to be so.

Strange that that's less scandalous than him being gay...