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Post by chrisfan on Aug 23, 2004 9:58:11 GMT -5
Chris, regarding McCain, I'm not all that sure he is as popular nationwide as both sides want us to believe. He's always been viewed as a bit of a maverick. One thing I can say though, is that McCain (for whatever reason), is extremely popular in Michigan. He has a real, and strong following here. One very important reason why President Bush brought him to the state on one of his visits. Strat, I tend to agree with you on the notion that we're led to believe that he's more popular than he is. I kind of wonder if it's both parties that lead us to believe that, or if McCAin has some of the best communications people ever assembled in Washington. Here's what I wonder though (and this is only speculation, I'm not basing it on anything particular). Does McCain dangle a "I will support you" carrot out there for both sides, MAKING him more desirable? Does he slyly lead both sides to believe that he can be "bought" in order to ensure he maintains power? Pretty damn slick if that's what he's doing. Shane, I don't believe anyone said there was a problem with being a moderate. |
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Post by stratman19 on Aug 23, 2004 10:00:37 GMT -5
One thing that continues to bother me, is why John Kerry would rather talk about a 30 year old war, rather than his 20+ years in the United States Senate. One would think the latter as being far more relevant. I have a pretty good idea why Kerry doesn't want to talk about his 20+ year record, choosing instead to ofuscate said record, and opting instead to talk about a 30 year old war.
See if this makes sense. If his entire Senate career and voting record were to become widely known by the general public, it would be discovered that he is far to liberal to be elected by mainstream America. Sound reasonable?
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Post by Proud on Aug 23, 2004 10:04:09 GMT -5
"Nothing wrong with being a moderate."
i agree completely, but at this point in time, i wouldn't vote for him mainly because he's a republican and therefore part of the opposition, which simply has too much power. if it was a different era, i might support him.
but at this point in time, i'd sooner vote for jim mcgreevy, michael dukakis, walter mondale, and dennis kucinich.
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Post by stratman19 on Aug 23, 2004 10:10:23 GMT -5
To add to my previous post. Bush has a record, and is running on it. Kerry has a long Senate record...how come he's not running on that? but at this point in time, i'd sooner vote for jim mcgreevy, michael dukakis, walter mondale, and dennis kucinich. Proud, I was never even able to determine what color the sky was in Kucinich's world. Were you?  |
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Post by Proud on Aug 23, 2004 10:17:54 GMT -5
"Proud, I was never even able to determine what color the sky was in Kucinich's world. Were you?"
this is a trick question! at night it is black, during the day it is blue, and during sunset, 'tis red! this is but a slicing of the cake by a kid who has hand malfunctioning inabilities!
so, by using the blue/red/black philosophy:
Blue - 47.3%
Black - 47.3%
Red - 5.4%
now, this can be solved by using simple algebra. let's say you have 20 m&ms... 5 red, 4, blue, 7 black, 5 gold, and you want to take out 2 while maintaining the balances of a positive outlook. using this formula, you get 19.
now look at this chart right here...
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Post by stratman19 on Aug 23, 2004 10:18:47 GMT -5
LIST OF THINGS I'M SICK AND GODDAMNED TIRED OF
1. Living in a battleground state
2. Seeing political ads every two seconds because I live in a battleground state
3. 527 groups. ALL of them. Yeah Congress, congratulations. That's real campaign finance reform all right.
4. A campaign seemingly about a 30 year old war.
5. Vietnam...period
6. Liberal ideology...period
7. Two campaigns acting like a bunch of morons.
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Post by stratman19 on Aug 23, 2004 10:24:12 GMT -5
Strat, I tend to agree with you on the notion that we're led to believe that he's more popular than he is. I kind of wonder if it's both parties that lead us to believe that, or if McCAin has some of the best communications people ever assembled in Washington. Here's what I wonder though (and this is only speculation, I'm not basing it on anything particular). Does McCain dangle a "I will support you" carrot out there for both sides, MAKING him more desirable? Does he slyly lead both sides to believe that he can be "bought" in order to ensure he maintains power? Pretty damn slick if that's what he's doing. Good questions Chris. Hell, I've never even really considered McCain to be all that loyal a Republican. I think in many ways, he uses his "maverick" persona to allow himself to be woo'ed by both sides, thus feeding his ego, and giving him a certain amount of power, perceived or otherwise. |
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Post by Proud on Aug 23, 2004 10:29:42 GMT -5
"1. Living in a battleground state"
i suppose i can't relate, though some people have tried convincing me that this is one (new jersey... but c'mon, you know how nj almost always votes... even if it has gone the other way at times in the past). but it must be quite annoying. i bet you can't escape politics when you want to... because let's face it, if someone think about politics all day, they'll go bitter and crazy (pretty easy to do nowadays, regardless of your side).
"2. Seeing political ads every two seconds because I live in a battleground state"
especially when both sides are spouting bullshit. and even when there's some truth oftentimes it isn't important stuff, considering our current situation. it's more or less "he's wrong but i'm less wrong". hey, i have an idea: how about someone knows what the hell they're doing for once?
"3. 527 groups. ALL of them. Yeah Congress, congratulations. That's real campaign finance reform all right."
much like the patriot act and fair pay act, beautiful titles go a long way.
"4. A campaign seemingly about a 30 year old war."
indeed. vietnam sucked and we know all about the horrors of it, but must we moan about it forever? the country needs to move on from it and all the crazy crap that happened in the 60s and 70s someday. i, for one, don't like living in the past, especially when we have so many issues in the present and future.
"5. Vietnam...period"
yup. how 'bout we all whine and moan about ww2 and the korean war while we're at it? snooze. can't live in the past. gotta focus on making the present and the future brighter.
"6. Liberal ideology...period"
if you're talking about extremists, i agree completely. i can't stand extremists on both sides. you have those on the left who think women are locked inside cages, and the ones on the right who think teddy kennedy wants to blow up the white house. sometimes it's difficult to think logically, especially during an election year.
"7. Two campaigns acting like a bunch of morons."
what i see on both sides is bitter, often unsupported bickering. my choice obviously is well-known, but i certainly don't support all the stuff that's gone on during it.
in conclusion: helllooo, nevada!
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Post by chrisfan on Aug 23, 2004 10:33:47 GMT -5
Good questions Chris. Hell, I've never even really considered McCain to be all that loyal a Republican. I think in many ways, he uses his "maverick" persona to allow himself to be woo'ed by both sides, thus feeding his ego, and giving him a certain amount of power, perceived or otherwise. Now as I said before, I'm definitely looking at this through bias eyes. But I would tend to argue that the McCain equivilent for the Democrats is Lieberman. Both added to their prominence in the 2000 campaign. Both would be labeled moderates, and tend to go agaist their own party as much as they go with it. To be fair, perhaps Zell Miller would be an even better example of the Democratic equivilent to McCain than Lieberman. But in either case, you don't really see the level of "woo-ing" from Republicans to bring them over, cite their support, etc that you do the Democrats with McCain. Yes, Miller is addressing the Republican convention, but he pretty much came out with his support of Bush, and then was brought into the fold. McCain was being wooed by the KErry camp to support him, but stuck with Bush. I'm just starting to think more and more that he's a "votes for sale" kind of guy. Oh, and on the Kucinich question? He's from Clevealnd. The sky is gray in his world. Duh!  |
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Post by Proud on Aug 23, 2004 10:38:39 GMT -5
"To be fair, perhaps Zell Miller would be an even better example of the Democratic equivilent to McCain than Lieberman. But in either case, you don't really see the level of "woo-ing" from Republicans to bring them over, cite their support, etc that you do the Democrats with McCain."
zell miller's about to retire, and lieberman's too devoted to the democratic party. besides, why woo anybody over when you currently pretty much run the country? no need for compromise.
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Post by chrisfan on Aug 23, 2004 10:44:01 GMT -5
"To be fair, perhaps Zell Miller would be an even better example of the Democratic equivilent to McCain than Lieberman. But in either case, you don't really see the level of "woo-ing" from Republicans to bring them over, cite their support, etc that you do the Democrats with McCain." zell miller's about to retire, and lieberman's too devoted to the democratic party. besides, why woo anybody over when you currently pretty much run the country? no need for compromise. You may be missing my point here Proud. I don't think that the Democrats are seriously trying to get McCain to switch parties, nor do I think that the Republicans are trying to gt Miller or Lieberman to. (nor for that matter do I think any of the three would) I'm simply trying to find a Democrat comparison for the Republicans to treat in the way the Democrats use McCain as a "See I told you, he is on our side" kind of guy. |
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Post by chrisfan on Aug 23, 2004 10:45:06 GMT -5
And if there were no need for compromise for hte Republicans these days, then Bush's tax cuts would be permanent, rather than being in jeopardy of expiring in a few years.
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Post by pissin2 on Aug 23, 2004 10:49:29 GMT -5
Yes, Bush in the Charlton Heston role, as a lone heroic astronaut fighting for survival on a planet full of Democrat-like apes...interesting concept. no silly. Bush as king of the apemen! |
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Post by Proud on Aug 23, 2004 10:50:13 GMT -5
"I'm simply trying to find a Democrat comparison for the Republicans to treat in the way the Democrats use McCain as a "See I told you, he is on our side" kind of guy."
hmm, fair enough. i'd say lieberman's a better example than miller, though. mccain is basically a republican with some ideals (especially monetarily, i believe) that are more on the left side, and lieberman is a democrat with some ideals on the right. as for zell miller, he's just an idiot.
"And if there were no need for compromise for hte Republicans these days, then Bush's tax cuts would be permanent, rather than being in jeopardy of expiring in a few years."
while that's true, it seems that with most things the republicans have had their way without too much of a struggle. smart by the republicans, though... they're doing as much as they can to push their agenda while they're at the peak of their power, and they've been successful for the most part. i do think the republican party had a bit more control right after 9/11 then they do now, though. i guess it's the whole "democrats don't know how to protect the country" philosophy.
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Post by Proud on Aug 23, 2004 11:03:43 GMT -5
President Bush denounced TV ads by outside groups attacking both John Kerry and himself on Monday and called for a halt to all such political efforts. "I think they're bad for the system," he said.
source: Yahoo News
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