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Post by pissin2 on Aug 24, 2004 11:05:29 GMT -5
When do they go head to head?
I was just reading more about the commercials. It's funny how bush is speaking out against them all. Now it seems they're basically saying Kerry is being negative because he hasn't condemned them as well. All that looks like to me is Bush actually is responsible for them, and now he's trying to look good by speaking out against them all. I don't know how anyone can fucking take that guy seriously sometimes.
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Post by Galactus on Aug 24, 2004 11:17:43 GMT -5
The first debate is on Sept. 30.
You have to admit that BUsh has a nack for getting people on his side...even though Kerry has been asking BUsh to denouce these ads for weeks, somehow Bush has the power to make it look like he brought it up first...that's why I say the debates will be interesting...
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Post by chrisfan on Aug 24, 2004 11:21:59 GMT -5
When do they go head to head? I was just reading more about the commercials. It's funny how bush is speaking out against them all. Now it seems they're basically saying Kerry is being negative because he hasn't condemned them as well. All that looks like to me is Bush actually is responsible for them, and now he's trying to look good by speaking out against them all. I don't know how anyone can fucking take that guy seriously sometimes. I don't know how anyone could take dreamland conspiracy theory arguments like this seriously either. |
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Post by pissin2 on Aug 24, 2004 11:22:31 GMT -5
yeah.....I wonder if Bush has some weird hynosis power sometimes, that just for some reason doesn't work on me. And most of Florida.
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Post by chrisfan on Aug 24, 2004 11:23:31 GMT -5
DED, would you consider yourself to be someone who views the denouncing of these ads to be an important thing for either or both candidate to do?
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Post by pissin2 on Aug 24, 2004 11:25:13 GMT -5
dreamland conspiracy theory? it's not a theory at all really. It's what happened. A bunch of ads being run slamming Kerrys war record. Then he's all "what the fuck?!" Now Bush is all "um yeah man, that's not cool. They should like stop." and everyone cheers for Bush. Hmmmm, kinda odd dontcha think?
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Post by chrisfan on Aug 24, 2004 11:26:50 GMT -5
dreamland conspiracy theory? it's not a theory at all really. It's what happened. A bunch of ads being run slamming Kerrys war record. Then he's all "what the fuck?!" Now Bush is all "um yeah man, that's not cool. They should like stop." and everyone cheers for Bush. Hmmmm, kinda odd dontcha think? If only the history of the campaign had started on the day the ads started running, you may have something here. Too bad that time started before then. |
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Post by Galactus on Aug 24, 2004 11:28:23 GMT -5
I think sometimes indepent groups can bring up good points and they can say things the cadidates can't get away with...but as far a TV ads go I think they should all be denouced.
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Post by pissin2 on Aug 24, 2004 11:30:15 GMT -5
What does it matter when the ads started running?
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Post by chrisfan on Aug 24, 2004 11:32:16 GMT -5
I think sometimes indepent groups can bring up good points and they can say things the cadidates can't get away with...but as far a TV ads go I think they should all be denouced. Two questions I'd be curious to hear your take on ... 1. What impact do you think that a candiate denouncing an ad truly has on it? 2. If i remember correctly, you are one who is against most of if not all of the patriot act. Among the arguments against the Patriot Act are that it squelches our Constitutional rights. So I'm assuming that protecting constitutional rights is very important to you. Given that the first amendment guarantees a person's right to speak out about his/her government, how is silencing that speech when it takes place via tv ads desirable, but the rights that may or may not be squelched via the patriot act must be protected by abolishing the patriot act? |
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Post by chrisfan on Aug 24, 2004 11:33:13 GMT -5
What does it matter when the ads started running? It doesn't matter when they started running.What DOES matter is that there have been millions more spent on ads equivilent to these against Bush, with no whining from Bush. |
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Post by pissin2 on Aug 24, 2004 11:37:50 GMT -5
But if Bush did complain about the ads, like he is now actually, people think it's great and he's the good guy. That's the point I was trying to make there.
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Post by Galactus on Aug 24, 2004 11:54:18 GMT -5
1. What impact do you think that a candiate denouncing an ad truly has on it? 2. If i remember correctly, you are one who is against most of if not all of the patriot act. Among the arguments against the Patriot Act are that it squelches our Constitutional rights. So I'm assuming that protecting constitutional rights is very important to you. Given that the first amendment guarantees a person's right to speak out about his/her government, how is silencing that speech when it takes place via tv ads desirable, but the rights that may or may not be squelched via the patriot act must be protected by abolishing the patriot act? Zowee...well here goes. 1 & 2. It depends. When Kerry asked MoveOn to stop running the AWOL ads, they did. It would have meant and said alot if BUsh had said "These swift boat ads are over the line and should be pulled" I can olny assume the ads would've been pulled. I'm not suggesting we make the ads illeagal, I'm simply suggesting we keep a closer eye on them...when a canidate speaks out against an ad that attacks the other guy I think it does alot of good(but not after the other guy has been asking him to for almost a month and even though he has denouced all the ads he has yet to address the specific one causing all the bruhaha). I think people should be made aware that these ads are of dubious validity...maybe their should be a "the opinions exspessed herein..." sort disclaimer before all of them... Good question and I'll answer in a way that might make more sense when when my daughter isn't climbing on my head... |
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Post by chrisfan on Aug 24, 2004 12:18:21 GMT -5
On the issue of the impact of a candiate asking for an ad to be pulled ...
Can you see how an environment has been created where Bush is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't when it comes to asking for such a thing? If you look at all the rhetoric that has been flying around over the past year or so, Bush has been accused of squelching free speech countless times, even when he's done nothing to deserve the wrap. Howard Stern tries to convince his listeners that he's being taken off the air (though he's still there) because he said bad things about Bush. The Dixie Chicks blame the slump in their record sales on what they said about Bush, claiming that Bush pushed for their songs to not be played on radio. Tim Robbins goes off about this "chill wind" sweeping across the country because Bush is supposedly trying to intimidate him into not talking. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Now if Bush is (wrongly IMO) accused of squelcing free speech when he does absolutely nothing, what kind of an uproar would there be if he went on the record specifically asking for the voice of a few to be silenced?
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Post by Galactus on Aug 24, 2004 13:30:36 GMT -5
I see what you're saying and I disagree. We all know Stern does everything he does for ratings this is no different and everybody knows it. The Dixie Chicks actually were subjected to a large scale boycott by the conservative country music industry...though their sales didn't go down as much as some would have you believe. I've stopped paying attention to Tim Robbins , Alec Baldwin as well.
The fact is that if Bush had spoken out agaisnt the swift boat ads, (I mean if the campaign supports Kerry's record as much as they claim would it really have been that hard?) I think it would have been veiwed as integrity by everyone except those would damn Bush for everything anyway... Maybe I'm wrong though...nobody cares that Kerry has asked for some of the ads attacking Bush to pulled. Bush hasn't, according to his supporters, let public criticism effect his choices up till now why should he start with these ads?
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