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Post by Galactus on Sept 13, 2004 15:55:47 GMT -5
OK, I apologise I didn't see Byron Yorke at the bottom. Still yet you posted it and you are also quite vocal that it doesn't matter...so why do you keep responding? Why do you keep discussing it and then giving me shit when I do the same? Hmmm now that sound familar...Where have I heard that before?
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Post by chrisfan on Sept 13, 2004 16:01:37 GMT -5
As I said ... Shin started out discussing it in the context of "Why does this not stick to Bush". I answered that. His counter included things I did not believe were accurate, so I corrected them. He thought things I said were not accurate, so he corrected me. And so on, and so on. Had Shin's original point been "People should not vote for Bush! He deserted the guard" I wouldn't have responded. I considered the original point "Why doesn't this stick" to be interesting, so I responded. And when my accuracy is questioned, I respond.
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Post by Galactus on Sept 13, 2004 16:06:24 GMT -5
If it helps you sleep at night...  |
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Post by Proud on Sept 13, 2004 16:13:58 GMT -5
well, i should've never registered for a business class, but i did. ... so i've been in a classroom full of ultra-conservatives.
i suppose the most fun part was when this girl (or woman... 25 years old, so your call) told me i should drop out of school if i can't afford it. ... before that we got into an argument over the whole 11-point time/newsweek thing and i screamed at the top of my lungs about it only being 962 people. she asked me for facts explaining that the poll wasn't true. ... well, i think that's a good enough response, without going into further detail.
let me put the first part this way... it isn't always as simple as "the poor can improve their lives! if they don't go to school or work 60 hours a week, they should die!"... some people can't improve their conditions, or they can but it takes a long time and the human lifespan is short (especially if you're poor). how dare someone tell me i should drop out of school. how dare she...
college teacher's a bit too partisan, as well. indeed, it is a business class, so it's expected... but she's putting it in her teaching, too. i'd rather not file a complaint, because she seems to be a decent person, but... beh, i dunno. maybe i should just suck it up and leave bad remarks when they hand out those papers where you're asked to grade your teacher...
in short, the election's close, and it'll remain close until it's over. if you think either candidate currently has a double digit lead, you are quite the silly human being.
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Post by chrisfan on Sept 13, 2004 16:29:27 GMT -5
well, i should've never registered for a business class, but i did. ... so i've been in a classroom full of ultra-conservatives. i suppose the most fun part was when this girl (or woman... 25 years old, so your call) told me i should drop out of school if i can't afford it. ... before that we got into an argument over the whole 11-point time/newsweek thing and i screamed at the top of my lungs about it only being 962 people. she asked me for facts explaining that the poll wasn't true. ... well, i think that's a good enough response, without going into further detail. let me put the first part this way... it isn't always as simple as "the poor can improve their lives! if they don't go to school or work 60 hours a week, they should die!"... some people can't improve their conditions, or they can but it takes a long time and the human lifespan is short (especially if you're poor). how dare someone tell me i should drop out of school. how dare she... college teacher's a bit too partisan, as well. indeed, it is a business class, so it's expected... but she's putting it in her teaching, too. i'd rather not file a complaint, because she seems to be a decent person, but... beh, i dunno. maybe i should just suck it up and leave bad remarks when they hand out those papers where you're asked to grade your teacher... in short, the election's close, and it'll remain close until it's over. if you think either candidate currently has a double digit lead, you are quite the silly human being. Proud, you most definitely have a point that a poll of 962 people hardly paints an accurate picture of the thought process of millions of voters. However, accepting that premise, how can you then come to the conclusion that the race is close? If a poll indicating a big lead is inaccurate, wouldn't a poll indicating a close race be equally inaccurate? |
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Post by Proud on Sept 13, 2004 16:36:08 GMT -5
close = not double digits. i think it's obvious enough.
edit: as i may have previously stated (not sure if i did) i think just about all of these polls are b.s. basically, there are a lot of people out there who will vote who aren't thinking about politics right now, and from my experiences and from what i've heard, there's every single reason to believe this will be a close election. if bush wins by double digits, i'll apologize and what not but i sincerely doubt he will.
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Post by chrisfan on Sept 13, 2004 16:40:04 GMT -5
I'm not arguing your asessment of the polls and their reliability. I'm questioning how you're coming to the conclusion that it's a close race? If polls aren't reliable, how do you know?
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Post by Proud on Sept 13, 2004 16:41:21 GMT -5
talk to people. listen to people. etc. i have trouble believing that 6 out of 10 people will vote for bush on nov. 2nd.
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Post by chrisfan on Sept 13, 2004 16:41:37 GMT -5
I forgot to mention my favorite TV person's question of the week this week! Chris Wallace yesterday, after playing a soundbite of John Kerry talking about the coalition of the bribed and the coerced to a Kerry supporter: "Can you tell me? Great Britain -- are they the bribed or the coerced?"  |
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Post by chrisfan on Sept 13, 2004 16:42:34 GMT -5
talk to people. listen to people. etc. i have trouble believing that 6 out of 10 people will vote for bush on nov. 2nd. But have you talked and listened to more than 926 people? Have they been a diverse group from all over the country? In other words, how is your "polling" more reliable than the formal polling? |
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Post by Proud on Sept 13, 2004 16:43:52 GMT -5
talking to people =/= poll
edit: beh, figured i'd elaborate on this one too. basically, i'm not just saying "dude, you like bush or kerry?". it's not just asking one person for one opinion, it has to do with perspectives of others, who they talked to, and the like. everything in the world, everything you gather, you get from others, poll or not. i do wonder how those polls were conducted, though. were they like "will you vote for george w. bush, john f. kerry, or ralph nader?", or "do you approve of mr. kerry even though his military record is bad?". hmm...
edit #2: also, keep in mind how varied these polls are. one says 4, others 5, others 7, then we have time and newsweek throwing 11 points at you. somehow i have trouble believing the 11.
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Post by Proud on Sept 13, 2004 17:00:38 GMT -5
but i suppose beyond the polls, what made me pissed is that she had the balls (she... balls? okay, bad analogy) to tell me to drop out of school, simply because i'm not as financially privileged as others. "take a few years off, work until you're 25!". sorry, but i'm not this system's bitch. i'm not a fucking dog. i'm 19, i'm in my sophomore year of school, and even if i end up taking out huge dollars in loans, i'm not pissing my life away just so i can let those who are monetarily better off walk over me and get accepted into the schools and get the jobs i desire. i hate this attitude, and though i don't want to brand it onto a group of people, i will state that most of the people i've met who think like this are republicans and/or conservatives (also, it was pretty much republicans who took 1.7 billion dollars out of the pell grant, and i'm furious about that).
i'm insulted, i'm outraged, and i'm bitter because of what i was told. i love america and i love being in america, but sometimes you're supposed to fight or otherwise go up against the current system. criticizing the government and trying to make living conditions better for your people, in my humble opinion, is true patriotism.
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Post by RocDoc on Sept 13, 2004 19:32:54 GMT -5
...and i screamed at the top of my lungs about it only being 962 people.
THAT is something which I'm sure your teacher saw as worth giving high marks to. Something about 'enthusiasm', I'm sure.
So what set off this 25 year old? Damn her anyway! Heh.
Were you loudly complaining about GWB personally shutting off the Pell Grant 'free-money pipeline' which you'd apparently banked your entire college career on?
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Post by melon1 on Sept 13, 2004 19:36:12 GMT -5
Wish I could respond right now, and wish that I knew what Mary Blaney said and erased. I don't mind correction. You're right in observing that rudeness isn't constructive. I hope I haven't been too rude because I've been quite temperamental for a while now. Hell, ever since Clinton was elected. Chrisfan, I'll get back to you later. Even though I don't completely agree with you you have my utmost respect as a fellow Republican.
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Post by Proud on Sept 13, 2004 19:49:36 GMT -5
"THAT is something which I'm sure your teacher saw as worth giving high marks to. Something about 'enthusiasm', I'm sure."
enh, she kinda ignored it. even though she's a conservative and i'm supposedly a liberal she seems to like me. *shrugs*
"So what set off this 25 year old? Damn her anyway! Heh."
she's probably one of those people who make sure you know her political beliefs, whether or not it's the right time or place to state them.
"Were you loudly complaining about GWB personally shutting off the Pell Grant 'free-money pipeline' which you'd apparently banked your entire college career on?"
i don't know how that comment was intended, but you seem to be a good guy so i doubt you meant anything personal. anyway, i didn't plan on it supporting my college career, no. but i still don't have more than a year of schooling done and i can't help the fact that i'm not from money and that i currently have no way of making money except for cheapass retail jobs. and i'm not expecting it to pay for 1/2, 1/3, whatever of my college payments. but i pretty much need SOME help (thankfully i'm getting a little bit from another source)... and i can't think of any scholarships intended for transfer students available to me, despite my good grades. beh, shoulda done better in high school...
and it isn't just that bush is involved in taking a large amount of money from the pell grant... it's that he says he supports the pell grant and wants to put more money in it, yet his intentions appear otherwise.
with all these things i blame bush for, it's amazing that i supported him for the first year or so of his presidency.
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