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Post by RocDoc on Sept 14, 2004 12:59:20 GMT -5
Now THAT would be Pissin's take on
'Illness'
and
'Cure'
wouldn't it?
ie Good LORD, it's gotta be one or the other, right?
Exemplary cleverness. The usual...ho-hO....hmmmmm...yawn*
~
The Senate race here?
A friggin' mess.
Tho, even Jeri(Six O'Nine)Ryan's husband would not have had a chance in hell against Barack Obama...back when he was still in it...
I've been very impressed w/Obama from the start...
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Post by chrisfan on Sept 14, 2004 13:06:15 GMT -5
I almost wonder if Jack Ryan wasn't behind the release of his divorce papers, just so HE could vote for Obama.  |
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Post by pissin2 on Sept 14, 2004 13:08:25 GMT -5
humdy ho hum
dumdy do da day
fiddle faddle fucker trucker
mutha mutha nut sac busta
now THAT is my take
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Post by chrisfan on Sept 14, 2004 13:46:17 GMT -5
Anyone remember a while back when some around here were freaking out that Diebold, a company run by a Republican donor, was making the electronic voting machines for Ohio, but could not produce a confirmation of the votes? People were crying foul, saying that it would makethe votes in Ohio unreliable? Good news! Republican Secretary of State Ken Blackwell said that technology that could not confirm the votes could not be used. So, the counties that were going to use the automatic voting machines startingwith this election will be going back to their old methods until the issue can be resolved.
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Post by pissin2 on Sept 14, 2004 13:54:29 GMT -5
that shit will still probably be rigged
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Post by chrisfan on Sept 14, 2004 13:56:46 GMT -5
that shit will still probably be rigged Unless Kerry wins, right? |
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Post by Galactus on Sept 14, 2004 13:59:28 GMT -5
Unless Kerry wins, right? No, then it just wasn't rigged good enough... |
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Post by pissin2 on Sept 14, 2004 14:06:57 GMT -5
yeah that means there was a major malfunction
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Post by stratman19 on Sept 14, 2004 15:24:01 GMT -5
The Senate race here?
A friggin' mess.
Tho, even Jeri(Six O'Nine)Ryan's husband would not have had a chance in hell against Barack Obama...back when he was still in it...
I've been very impressed w/Obama from the start...
Thanks for weighing in Doc. Nice to get the perspective of a native. Sometimes watching a race as an outsider, you may not get a completely accurate sense of what the hell is going on.
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Post by shin on Sept 14, 2004 19:11:05 GMT -5
Now Chrisfan, I can't possibly believe what that National Review piece on Bush's NG service says, can I? After all, the National Review is admittedly conservative, and therefore biased and unreliable, right? ;D Mary, you shouldn't have deleted that post. I saw it at the time, and forgive me for "encouraging" your "rants" but it was freakin' ace. Hopefully you didn't delete it  I wonder if TV's puffery punditry will give Kerry some props on this: slate.msn.com/id/2106714 |
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Post by Dr. Drum on Sept 14, 2004 21:03:53 GMT -5
Okay, digging further into an issue we've all agreed doesn't matter, for shits and giggles.
I didn’t agree that it doesn’t matter; I agreed that it doesn’t matter as much as what happened in the last four years.
Drum, I think that most anyone would agree that Bush did not take on the last two years of his guard service with the same vigor that he did the first four. The quesion that can't be answered by ANY of us is why? Or, for that matter, to what degree did he lose the vigor? Was it, as stated in the Byron Yorke piece, because post-Vietnam the Air National Guard was faced with an influx of pilots and were taking many opportunities to take people off duty or change their duty? Was it because he was moving around for civilian work, which altered his duties, as is allowed under most guard service agreements, as has also been said? Was it because he no longer needed the guard service to dodge Vietnam so he didn't care? Was it because the Guard started testing for drugs, and he didn't want to get caught? I can't answer that question Drum, so I'd have to ask how you or anyone else could.
"Did not take on the last two years of his Guard service with the same vigor that he did the first four?" A curious way for you to describe it, Chrisfan, given that you’ve always stated personal responsibility as a cornerstone of your politics. I’m not sure why you’re getting into all of this, though as I did not attempt to to say why Bush walked away from his service obligation. Nor does Lechliter, for that matter. As he says, that is an explanation Bush owes the U.S. public.
Further, Lechliter argues that his guard service is relevant, because Bush is campaigning as a war time president.... But we've seen Bush in action as Commander-in-Chief for the better part of his first term as president. Doesn't THAT speak to how he conducts himself as Commander-in-Chief better than service 30 years ago would?
I think the quote I posted from Lechliter’s report pretty much addressed this already. Yes, the recent past is more relevant to this election than the early 1970s, I’ve already agreed with this as well. However, there are issues of credibility, personal integrity and honour at stake here. Bush shirked his service obligation, committing a court-martial offence in the process according to Lechliter. Today the self-proclaimed "war president" wraps himself in the flag, strutting around on an aircraft carrier in a flight suit as a political photo op. Is there not a disconnect here?
You make the statement that the pay records prove that Bush received fraudulent payment. How?
Read the "Pay Records" section of the report.
Second, when you declare that Bush did not earn an honorable discharge, or that Kerry did not earn his medals, aren't you again calling into question EVERY honorable discharge and medal issued in the Vietnam era? You either trust the military to honestly administer discharges and medals, or you don't.
Oh come on, you can’t possibly be serious with this argument, can you? These are specific, documented charges. The only way you could call any other discharge into question would be to present similar specific, documented charges.
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Post by stratman19 on Sept 14, 2004 21:30:40 GMT -5
Bush shirked his service obligation, committing a court-martial offence in the process according to Lechliter.
Shirked his service obligation?! Well that's certainly worthy of an honorable discharge. Committing a court-martial offense? Give me a fucking break. Are you basing that on the increasing suspicion from all corners that CBS got duped by fake/forged documents? (re: the flight physical?)
As for President Bush running as a war president, polls have been relativley constant, in that close to 60% of Americans trust him more than Kerry in matters of national defense, the war on terror, etc. (That's a current record to run on...anybody tell Kerry?)
Drum, with all my heart, I hope we don't end up with another rubber backboned president like Clinton. Kerry would be that. I realize you would like that, but from where I sit, it would hurt this country greatly.
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Post by RocDoc on Sept 14, 2004 21:56:06 GMT -5
The CIRCUMSTANCES of our nation being attacked FORCED GWB into the position of being a 'War-Time President'.....I mean WTF is he supposed to do??
Play it down like 'Well fuck I honestly don't know what I'm doing; Colin Powell, Don Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney's advice is for shit and I'm simply just fucking playing like this is a big fucking game of Risk'...
MANY of us think that he's getting excellent fucking advice and truly 'has a CLUE' and that this all is not operating in some sort of a vacuum which YOU imagine is simply occurring betw GWB's ears.
Fuck this Lechliter and his sense of 'Y'all cain't say this war-time shit lessn't y'all paid some dues and George ain't!'
CIRCUMSTANCES have sort of pushed him there...and at this point pointing out 'illegitimacy' of this dubious sort is crap.
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Post by stratman19 on Sept 14, 2004 22:27:38 GMT -5
I for one appreciate this President's resoluteness, and sense of purpose. I disagree with him on many things, that's been well documented. I'm glad (and thankful) he's our president. As the fates allow, he will be for another 4 years. They hated Churchill too, but he was firm and strong, when others were weak...'nuff said.
I get the impression that you would have been with the Chamberlin wing during that time Drum.
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Post by Dr. Drum on Sept 15, 2004 6:06:31 GMT -5
Bush shirked his service obligation, committing a court-martial offence in the process according to Lechliter.Shirked his service obligation?! Well that's certainly worthy of an honorable discharge. Committing a court-martial offense? Give me a fucking break. Are you basing that on the increasing suspicion from all corners that CBS got duped by fake/forged documents? (re: the flight physical?) No, it’s not at all based on the CBS documents, stratman (though, I in fact doubt that they are forgeries at this point). The link to the Lechliter report is on pg. 23. Read it. My response to the RocDoc is the same. |
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