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Post by RocDoc on May 1, 2012 11:51:42 GMT -5
wow!
THIS is a very interesting situation in syria...
Turkish soldiers guard sacred tomb in Syria
By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA | Associated Press – 54 mins ago
ISTANBUL (AP) — It's a tiny plot of Turkey deep within violence-torn Syria — a sacred mausoleum guarded by Turkish troops.
The memorial to Suleyman Shah, grandfather of Osman I, founder of the Ottoman Empire, has remained surrounded by a small contingent of Turkish soldiers even as Turkey helps to lead international condemnation of the Syrian regime, shutting its embassy in Damascus and demanding that President Bashar Assad resign.
Few travelers visited the tomb even before the Syrian government's violent crackdown on an uprising that began more than a year ago. But the site along the Euphrates River is revered by Turkey, a strongly nationalist country whose rights there stem from a 1921 treaty with France, then colonial power in Syria.
The Ottoman empire collapsed in the early 20th century, and foreign powers encroached on its former territories. An article in the 1921 Franco-Turkish agreement lets Turkey keep guards and hoist its flag at the Syrian tomb, described as Turkish property. The arrangement was renewed with an independent Syria.
"Our soldiers are still there. There is no problem at all," a Turkish military officer said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.
Still, sensitivities are extreme at a time when Turkey, and its Western and Arab allies, campaign for the downfall of the Syrian government and urge the Syrian opposition, including rebels, to unify. While Syria has not interfered with the Turkish soldiers, believed to number about a dozen, the instability sweeping the nation could pose problems to a tradition that seems to defy political realities.
Syria has made no public statements about the soldiers, possibly calculating that any move against them, particularly at a site heavy with Islamic symbolism, offers no political gain and only risks retaliation from its powerful neighbor. Turkey's military headquarters declined to talk to The Associated Press, a likely sign that it does not want to publicize the memorial amid Syria's chaos.
"This is a kind of a risk for Turkey," said Osman Bahadir Dincer, a Syria expert at the International Strategic Research Organisation, a center in Ankara, the Turkish capital. "If someone really wants to pull Turkey into the problem, they can use these soldiers as a provocation."
By that, he meant an attack or harassment of the troops at the fenced compound on a strip of land jutting into the water near the village of Karakozak, about 25 kilometers (15 miles) from Turkey. Most of the thousands of Syrian refugees who have crossed the border used routes west of the village. Turkey's consulate in Aleppo, southwest of Karakozak, remains open.
Pro-Assad groups in Syria are increasingly hostile to Turkey, which has considered establishing a buffer zone inside Syria if border security deteriorates, and some anti-government activists hope foreign militaries will feel compelled to intervene and topple Assad.
Photographs of the memorial, taken in recent years, show ramrod-straight sentries with rifles. Red and white Turkish flags fly on tall poles on the tended, lush-green lawn.
A Turkish battalion based near the Syrian border rotates units at the mausoleum, and there are no indications that this process has been disrupted despite the tensions. Turkey has urged its citizens to leave Syria, and its diplomatic missions were the target of angry protests by pro-Assad demonstrators.
In a 1970s agreement with Syria, Turkey moved the mausoleum, sacred in Turkish lore, to its current location because the old site at a castle further south was to be inundated by the waters of a new dam.
Soner Cagaptay, a senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, visited in 2006 and described it as a "surreal experience."
He said the surrounding landscape was desolate — "there are no towns, tiny small villages here and there" — and that he had to show his passport to enter. The soldiers seemed bored. The infrequent visitors who signed the log were mostly Turks or ethnic Turks from Germany, Azerbaijan, the United States and other countries.
"It's a mini-attraction," Cagaptay said. "It's like a mythical past. It is where it all started for the Turks in Turkey."
Shah, a Turkic leader, is said to have drowned in the Euphrates in the 13th century. His followers headed north into what is today Turkey, where they launched the Ottoman empire. Some historians question official accounts about Shah's tomb, saying they might have been retrospectively concocted to enrich an imperial, then national identity for Turks.
Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, Turkey's founder, rejected the legacy of the Ottomans and their Islamic precepts, deeming them backward and imposing a secular, Western-oriented outlook that remains the subject of national debate today. In Shah, though, he may have seen a link to Turkic origins in Central Asia, a source of veneration in his new order.
"Even Ataturk could not let go despite the fact that his reforms were so much about letting go of the Ottoman past," Cagaptay said. The mausoleum's newfound vulnerability in a country in conflict, he said, makes it potentially "more significant than it has ever been since the end of the Ottoman empire."
...all of syria's neighbors are condemning the ruling regime in syria...and muthfuckin' russia STILL pulls against the current and thinks assad is an ok kinda guy - VERY in the hard-line russian mold.
NOTHING to do of course with syria sponsoring a deep-water harbor for the russian fleet there....nononono.
transparent fucking assholes, those russians.
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Post by RocDoc on Aug 5, 2012 18:35:47 GMT -5
Lollapalooza Sun shines on wet Lolla stage and so do White Rabbits, Gary Clark Jr.
Greg Kot
4:17 p.m. CDT, August 5, 2012
It was bring your galoshes day to Lollapalooza on Sunday, as the festival entered its final day drenched in sunshine, but still dealing with leftover mud and standing water from a Saturday storm. The worst portion of the park by far was the southern end, where the main stage sits and where Jack White will headline Sunday night.
But the 90,000 in attendance were clearly grateful for the weekend’s coolest and driest weather, and Icelandic lullabye merchants Sigur Ros provided the perfect late-afternoon soundtrack.
Overdoz piled ragged unison raps atop California funk, recalling the haze of ‘90s Digital Underground. “I just want a girlfriend to keep my joints rolled,” they declared in one party ode. “I’m too drunk for that,” they concluded in another. You get the idea -- which wore thin after about 10 ramshackle minutes.
White Rabbits trumped their merely OK albums with an eye-opening set, particularly when they incorporated a double-drummer set-up to give their surging anthems an extra kick. But it was Gary Clark Jr. who made an even deeper impression. The Texas guitarist is beholden to blues form, but as a stylist he blends the trance-like rhythms of Mississippi hill-country blues with the more abrasive textures of the Buddy Guy-Jimi Hendrix school of modernists.
He also dropped in a gorgeous slow-dance number, featuring his feathery falsetto and a slow-burn solo that brought a rousing cheer from the sun-baked fans.
-- Greg Kot
----------------------
Day 3 brings more sun, Jack White and Justice
10:15 a.m.
We have seen two eventful days at the Lollapalooza Music Festival, including a complete evacuation of Grant Park because of Saturday's storm.
Now we hit the home stretch with the final day of the fest, which should see beautiful weather and another day jam-packed with music. Here are the top picks from Tribune music critic Greg Kot.
Bowerbirds (noon, Sony): The North Carolina trio has released three albums of folk-tinged pop, mixing rural earnestness with an uplifting kick.
Bombay Bicycle Club (12:45 p.m., Red Bull): The U.K. band specializes in mellow atmosphere, mixing acoustic guitars, distant vocals and electro-tinged beats into lush, lulling melodies.
Polica (1:30 p.m., Sony): Gayngs singer Channy Leanagh’s enchanting voice will reward Sunday’s early arrivals.
Oberhofer (1 p.m., Bud Light): Songwriter Brad Oberhofer thinks big, recording with producer Steve Lillywhite (U2, Morrissey) and writing stadium-ready rock tunes.
Overdoz (2:10 p.m., BMI): The Inglewood, Calif., hip-hop group brings some old-school Cali funk in the mold of Digital Underground.
Trampled by Turtles (2:15 p.m., Red Bull): A quintet of erstwhile rockers who unplugged, sat in a circle, wrote songs with plaintive Appalachian hues, and never looked back.
Gary Clark Jr. (3:15 p.m., Playstation): The Texas guitar slinger is the latest young blues lion. He’s got chops and commitment, but will he measure up as a songwriter?
Dum Dum Girls (3:30 p.m., Google Play): Buoyant, high-energy melodies played at punk velocity with girl-group harmonies.
Sigur Ros (4 p.m., Red Bull): The Icelandic group has basically written one song over six albums, but it’s a beautiful one.
J. Cole (4:15 p.m., Bud Light): The rapper’s 2011 debut album, “Cole World: The Sideline Story,” debuted at No. 1, straddling the divide between the commercial sheen of his patron, Jay-Z, and a more introspective sound.
Amadou & Mariam (5:15 p.m., Playstation): The husband-and-wife duo takes a progressive approach to the music of their native Mali, working with a contemporary array of producers and collaborators while retaining the plaintive harmonies and plangent melodies of their homeland.
Yuna (5:40 p.m., BMI): The Malaysian singer-songwriter Yunalis Zarai has intriguing potential, though she’s dished out mostly conventional coffeehouse folk-pop so far.
At the Drive-In (6 p.m., Red Bull): The Texas band played some of the most insanely energetic concerts I’d ever seen before their 2001 demise, spinning off into the Mars Volta and Sparta. Now the original band has reunited for what could be the festival’s most highly anticipated set.
Florence + the Machine (6:15 p.m., Bud Light): Florence Welch has two hit albums and a stage personality that blends Victorian heroine with witchy seductress.
The Big Pink (7:15 p.m., Google Play): U.K. electronic duo Robbie Furze and Milo Cordell love their early ‘90s shoegaze, and they update that sound on two releases for the revered 4AD label.
Miike Snow (7:15 p.m., Sony): These Swedish producers -- Bloodshy & Avant (Christian Karlsson and Pontus Winnberg) and Andrew Wyatt -- have morphed into a tour-hardened electro-pop band with songs to match.
Jack White (8:15 p.m., Red Bull): The cofounding member of the White Stripes and the Dead Weather finally got around this year to making his first proper solo album, “Blunderbuss,” and it’s the friskiest, widest-ranging music of his career.
Justice (8:30 p.m., Bud Light): This French duo (Gaspard Augé and Xavier de Rosnay has expanded the reach of electronic music with its sense of arena-rock dynamics and drama.
Copyright © 2012, Chicago Tribune
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skvorecky
Streetcorner Musician
Now I Am Become Death, Destroyer of Worlds.
Posts: 32
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Post by skvorecky on Aug 17, 2012 12:01:45 GMT -5
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Post by RocDoc on Aug 18, 2012 10:25:16 GMT -5
they DID do something totally stupid, but 'stupid' shouldn't cost someone 2 years for what, 'hooliganism'?
how fucking russian.
disrespect of the Orthodox premises was a really bad lapse in judgement, especially for the religiosity the once nominally 'God-less' now embraces today as measure of russian-ness and russian nationalism.
pussy riot musta missed THAT memo.
or their parents and grandparents totally bought into the enforced sacred atheism of the SSR days, and they never taught their kids the need to respect OTHERS 'religious' symbols no matter their anarchic punk convictions.
there's supposed to be protests in nyc, chicago, la from what i've read.
a-ha, a NEW groundswell of anti-russian sentiment!
the juggernaut begins!
right.
i've been there, done that wrt russia before.
meaning i HAVE marched in those protests, far MORE serious ones actually.
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skvorecky
Streetcorner Musician
Now I Am Become Death, Destroyer of Worlds.
Posts: 32
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Post by skvorecky on Aug 20, 2012 9:19:21 GMT -5
Hold up, Hold up, I believe in freedom of speech for all and I don't think what they did was stupid, especially when you take into account the amount of international attention all of this received. The case itself is problematic for a lot of reasons. Pussy Riot are clearly not expressing hatred of Orthodox Christianity, but they are protesting the Church's close relationship to Vladimir Putin and his regime. Unless Putin is now Russian Jesus, I don't know how this holds up. Hating Putin is not the same as hating religion. In a true free society, these ladies would have received a slap on the wrist for the trespassing, some community service, a fine, and would have been on their merry way. Pussy Riot is just a punk rock band. However, they found themselves imprisoned for an act of political dissent and I think that is something worthy of being protested. I will concede that their unjust imprisonment doesn't necessarily make anything done in their name a step forward for Russian civil liberties. At least these ladies got a trial. There have been many, many cases where a lot of these guys "die in prison" before one second of evidence is heard in the trials of these supposed "enemies of the state".
Also, religious freedom is also the freedom to NOT have a religion. I know that the former Soviet state worshiped at the feet of Marx and Lenin and that was the whole point. I get that but still being an atheist doesn't mean you're a communist. Ayn Rand was an atheist for example.
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skvorecky
Streetcorner Musician
Now I Am Become Death, Destroyer of Worlds.
Posts: 32
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Post by skvorecky on Aug 20, 2012 9:58:43 GMT -5
And I'm assuming that "wrt" is with regards to? I don't really do text speak or internet lingo so I'm going to assume that's correct.
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Post by RocDoc on Aug 20, 2012 16:20:26 GMT -5
Hold up, Hold up, I believe in freedom of speech for all and I don't think what they did was stupid, especially when you take into account the amount of international attention all of this received.
boy 'the ends justifying the means' you're saying?
then their 2 years in whatever hoosegow they're no doubt thoroughly enjoying, oughta be worth all the attention they've bought to the orthodox church's explicit backing of vladdy putinski.
naw, hiding this behind 'political dissent' in present-day russia, trampling the holy-of-holies while a bunch little old babushka ladies are praying for one extra potato, WAS just fucking stupid.
that's the best characterization it deserves.
otherwise what?
EVERYone gets to interupt tha fucking priests now for their every ignorant political dissatisfaction?
like you said, they're VERY lucky they even GOT a trial let alone getting their asses beat to a pulp by some vodka-stinking KGBists.
I get that but still being an atheist doesn't mean you're a communist.
hmmm, i said that? no.
~~
'wrt' is an accepted medical shortening of 'with respect to' (you were close) and has been for years...like 'd/t' meaning 'due to'...
tho i can understand the conflation with 'text-ese' these days.
IF i ever text, 99% of the time i use full words, w/the exceptions of maybe the '+', '@' and maybe an ampersand...tho i fucking HATE texting cos i suck at typing a phone and it sucks up so much time.
ya wanna tell me something? call. let's TALK.
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skvorecky
Streetcorner Musician
Now I Am Become Death, Destroyer of Worlds.
Posts: 32
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Post by skvorecky on Aug 21, 2012 9:07:04 GMT -5
"The Ends justify the means" is not the point of view that I'm taking on this. I have issues with the celebrities who are jumping on this issue and are not bringing to attention the real problems of the civil liberties structure of present day Russia. Feminism and punk rock are a great start but there is so much that needs to be talked about concerning that political system.
What I am saying is there was more to their behavior than just some punk rock loving ladies saying "fuck the Jesus" and writhing around in a Church. I will respectfully disagree with you. I don't think what Pussy Riot was doing was a small thing. You're not a woman and man, from this, is that glaringly obvious. The reaction of your words are a bit vitriolic and I'm having a hard time with that. I figured you of all people would be into what these ladies had to say. For one thing, the Church has been very blind the plight of women's issues not to mention that Russia is turning into a very strange hegemonic patriarchy.
And you may not have said that atheists are communists but if you go back to your original post it would be easy for someone to extrapolate that as the underlying meaning.
*****
I don't really text that much so it was nice to see your response.
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Post by RocDoc on Aug 22, 2012 10:20:07 GMT -5
And you may not have said that atheists are communists but if you go back to your original post it would be easy for someone to extrapolate that as the underlying meaning. and you're saying i do believe that. it's an absurd statement to anyone. um-hmm, yes right - c'mon skv, you're THAT convinced that my entire life MUST be shot through with this supposed wrong-headed ignorance? because of, i dunno, my horribly advanced age, because i'm a child of e european immigrants with (worst of all) conservative leaning ideals. but you're flatout calling me stupid there. hey i suppose if it's to buttress your supposition of how 'right' all your positions on all your well-thought out 'convictions' are, well i guess then fine. i don't know, the convo was fine, pretty ok even, but it's these seemingly small suppositions that show imo where you're coming from, how you view me, this fundamental disrespect... |
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Post by RocDoc on Aug 22, 2012 10:22:29 GMT -5
Topless Protester Cuts Down Cross in KievMOSCOW, August 17 (RIA Novosti)Activists from the Ukrainian feminist group Femen cut down a wooden crucifix in the center of the country’s capital, Kiev, on Friday in support of members of the Russian punk band Pussy Riot whose trial on hooliganism charges comes to an end today
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skvorecky
Streetcorner Musician
Now I Am Become Death, Destroyer of Worlds.
Posts: 32
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Post by skvorecky on Aug 22, 2012 11:27:12 GMT -5
And you may not have said that atheists are communists but if you go back to your original post it would be easy for someone to extrapolate that as the underlying meaning. and you're saying i do believe that. it's an absurd statement to anyone. um-hmm, yes right - c'mon skv, you're THAT convinced that my entire life MUST be shot through with this supposed wrong-headed ignorance? because of, i dunno, my horribly advanced age, because i'm a child of e european immigrants with (worst of all) conservative leaning ideals. but you're flatout calling me stupid there. hey i suppose if it's to buttress your supposition of how 'right' all your positions on all your well-thought out 'convictions' are, well i guess then fine. i don't know, the convo was fine, pretty ok even, but it's these seemingly small suppositions that show imo where you're coming from, how you view me, this fundamental disrespect... Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Dude, are you on fucking anti-depressants or something? You have to be the most pathological fucking troll on the internet. I didn't say that you believed anything nor was I trying to speak for you. What the fuck is your problem, dude? My response was meant to be a "cool, I see where you're coming from, but can you see how one might extrapolate that inference" kind of thing, dude. Notice at the end of my post I commended and complimented you for your views concerning the growing world of text. I haven't said there's anything wrong with Conservative ideals or anything, I'm just coming from a different opinion regarding the three members of Pussy Riot and their current legal situation. I don't think I'm right or have the best convictions you fucking asshole, I was merely saying I was surprised we differed on this one. I was referring and paying attention to past times that you've posted about your background and your dislike for Putin. I thought we would agree on this one. Dude, chill the fuck out. No wonder 90% of this board took off and think you're fucking nuts. You just go ballistic out of nowhere. Dude, you have serious anger management issues or a chip-on-the-shoulder issues. Really, really bad. Knock it off, I wasn't shitting on you. I will also say that equating dancing in a church is not the same as destruction of property. The protester in Kiev is the same kind of attention grabbing shit that the Black Metal guys did in Norway and I find it counter productive. |
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skvorecky
Streetcorner Musician
Now I Am Become Death, Destroyer of Worlds.
Posts: 32
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Post by skvorecky on Aug 22, 2012 11:37:24 GMT -5
Ugh, forget it. This was a mistake. Good luck.
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Post by RocDoc on Aug 22, 2012 19:36:22 GMT -5
c'mon, skv - you're asking me if I'm on antidepressants and THIS misunderstanding makes you wanna bail?
hmmm.
anyway -
the thing is that the extrapolation of it, was so completely wrong (ie 'I get that but still being an atheist doesn't mean you're a communist') yet came so naturally to you...you've sort of trained me (along with so many others, like that 90% which you're citing, also assigning the blackest stupidest possible meanings to my words) to be offended when that ^ sorta statement is tossed after a comment of mine.
and i THOUGHT you were just reiterating it, by saying 'look, by what you said there, it's a natural conclusion which i've concluded, so there', which i couldn't fathom at all...someone else MAY jump to that same conclusion.
my communication my suck...or your comprehension might have flaws.
well, oops, i guess, if that was you trying to back off of that. sorry.
i try to make my words as sharp and meaningfully clear as you do, but it doesn't always work out for everyone for a multitude of reasons.
think about the MANY fucking times you (and phil, hoo-haA, everyone's avuncular hippie socialist) have tried to deflate anything negative i've ever said here regarding russia...so for you to be anything 'kindred' with me, against putin IS sorta an unnatural order, seeing you 2 ALWAYS pointed out my intolerant wrongheadedness about things i grew up with.
see that?
and i would have gone on to say (well, if you hadn't bailed, phfft) that a 'womens' rights' campaign of this sort in absurdly patriarchally egoist russia imo has about as much chance at success there as it would in any hardline taliban-ruled muslim country.
their hatred of muslims (oh, and jews) being so legendary, it's ironic to understand that russia's tough-ass attitudes on a variety of philosphies (esp a'woman's place') are not ANY better.
and yeah, womens' rights has a long way to go there, while you seem to think pussy riot's act is worthy of being a standard bearer as though attacking a secondary (or tertiary) support system like the orthodox church is going to suddenly make the church now reject whatever governmental support pussy riot claims the church gets.
nah, ain't happnin'.
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Post by RocDoc on Sept 2, 2012 10:27:51 GMT -5
thornswrath
Hey Clint Eastwood, do you think any of us believe for a second you actually "cried" upon hearing 25 million Americans were unemployed ? I call "Disingenuous!" at that remark. This is the Land of the Free - - you of all people should know that. And you know what it means. In an open market capitalist democracy such as ours, where Freedom reigns supreme, some will fail as wildly as others succeed. So your statement about "crying" over the homeless is revealed as the typical and utterly manipulative tactic you conservatives have been falling back on since the get go. Speaking of getting going, why don't you and your ilk just take your old stuff and get off the stage already. Make room for the new generation who are concerned about human rights for everyone, here. And what's up with the chair thing? Really? You spoke with our invisible president? Silly stunt that I'll bet you're regretting about now, huh.
Like · · Share · Friday at 1:18pm near Salt Lake City, UT
thornswrath
Micky you're right, the funny thing is how often we forget . . . your reminder is definitely necessary. . . someone on EmDee's (Matthew Damon's) page pointed out how their being dumb actors plays into politics so well, and I have to agree with that too. Point being, these "Sack of Hammers" are always taken seriously by the Republicans to the point they Enthrone them to the Highest Executive Office in the Land (Ronnie Raygun, anyone?)!
Friday at 1:21pm · Like · 1
strat-o
There's not many people the Republicans would give the green light to go out there and ad lib like that, and I think it was mainly intended as a comedy bit. He's obviously a bit crotchety now, and a conservative. As one of my favorite actors and directors of all time, I'm inclilned to give him a pass on it. After all, there have been some left wing actors who have said some pretty kooky things too, and I still love them.
Friday at 5:49pm · Unlike · 2
rocdoc
ý"After all, there have been some left wing actors who have said some pretty kooky things too, and I still love them."
and with HIS near total lack of qualifications 4 years ago, doesn't anyone understand that obama is every BIT the actor, propped up by axelrod and the circumstances of his birth?
green as anything. knew how to 'get along' in chicago, full stop.
and i do grant obama's no dumbshit, tho he was JUST starting to learn the senate and (in his prime) reagan was by NO stretch dumb as a sack of hammers.
axelrod cast him and said ACT this way, READ this with THIS inflection and enough people will BUY it.
show biz baby - love the irony!
Yesterday at 8:42am · Like
interesting thread after thorn's initial pretty ungenerous (to an 84 year old) initial comment (10 comments total pared to these 3, full disclosure) - i just really thought my comment was bang-on enough that i didn't wish to lose it to the bowels of FB.
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Post by RocDoc on Sept 6, 2012 14:20:50 GMT -5
be these """lies"""? or simply painting the rosiest picture to the dedicated 'choir'? i hate fucking 'campaign time because it's presumed that EVERYone's a goddamned boob. tho like they say 'you'll never get rich overestimating the intelligence of the american public' - y'all wanna believe, fine. y'all wanna hope, fine. would you like your bulllshit sliced thick or thin? don't matter anyhow - it ALL bowlsheet. Fact check: 4.5 million new jobs created under Obama?
By Eric Pfeiffer
Yahoo! News | The Ticket – 22 hrs agoWith the Democratic National Convention in full swing, a number of party leaders are attempting to boost President Barack Obama's re-election effort by asserting that 4.5 million new jobs have been created during his term.
Obama himself has recently claimed more job growth in the past 27 months than President George W. Bush created "during the entire seven years before this crisis."
"Despite incredible odds and united Republican opposition, our president took action, and now we've seen 4.5 million new jobs," San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro said in his keynote address at the DNC on Tuesday night.
That statistic was echoed by virtually all of Tuesday night's speakers, including first lady Michelle Obama, Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick and Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, who previously served as Obama's chief of staff.
However, CNN fact-checked that claim and found it to be "not the whole picture." Instead, CNN found that there has been a net increase of just 300,000 nonfarm payroll jobs since Obama took office. And if you count government jobs, there are actually 400,000 fewer people working today than in January 2009.
When Democrats use the 4.5 million jobs number, they're referring to jobs created after the economy bottomed out in January 2010, one year after Obama took office. That time frame excludes the worst job losses, which took place in 2009, and which many Democrats argue were the result of Bush policies.
CNN concludes: "The figure of 4.5 million jobs is accurate if you look at the most favorable period and category for the administration. But overall, there are still fewer people working now than when Obama took office at the height of the recession."
Still, a historical analysis of job growth percentages shows that Obama still fares better than some recent presidents. As of July, Obama is averaging +0.84 percent annual job growth in his term. That places him ahead of Bush, who saw +0.51 percent growth in his first term and -0.84 percent in his second term. Obama is also tracking better than George H.W. Bush, who presided over +0.69 percent growth during his one term in the White House.
However, Obama's job growth percentages trail far behind those of some other recent presidents, including Bill Clinton (+2.60 percent and +1.60 percent), Ronald Reagan (+1.75 percent and +2.53 percent) and even Jimmy Carter (+2.30 percent).
news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/fact-check-4-5-million-jobs-created-under-175621036--election.html?_esi=1
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