Israel VS Palestine

[stingingpistol]

On this point, their origins are rather irrelevant. I don't see anything wrong with a group being dismissed by the rest of the world for advocating the elimination of an entire race of people. I do see a problem with minimizing such a mission by trying to paint them as equivilent to other groups in the conflict they're involved in.

uh jews being a "race" of ppl is news to me. interesting. my coworker is in the process of becoming a jew so i'll have to ask him how he intends to go about changing his biological ancestry.

[skvorisdeadsorta]

chrisfan said:

skvorisdeadsorta said:

Just because I'm against the World Bank doesn't mean that I'm some sort of conspiracy theorist, Jesus Christ, it's annoying.

You're absolutely right. It's not your stand against the World Bank that makes you a conspiracy theorist. It's your reliance on some sort of conspiracy to dismiss every argument you don't have an answer for that makes you a conspiracy theorist.

Excuse me, tattle taler? Don't you need to go squeel to a moderator or something right now? Uh, the articles that I have posted have made perfect since and entirely outside of Conspiracy Theory. However when faced with real questions that I have asked, you keep coming back with nothing. NOTHING.

I'd say bring it, but I've already brought it, and I'm taking my pom poms and pigtails and shoving them up your ass.

[chrisfan]

stingingpistol said:

On this point, their origins are rather irrelevant. I don't see anything wrong with a group being dismissed by the rest of the world for advocating the elimination of an entire race of people. I do see a problem with minimizing such a mission by trying to paint them as equivilent to other groups in the conflict they're involved in.

uh jews being a "race" of ppl is news to me. interesting. my coworker is in the process of becoming a jew so i'll have to ask him how he intends to go about changing his biological ancestry.

There are varying viewpoints on it, which is why I paused for a bit while writing that post, trying to decide what word was best to use. There is a belief held by some, though not all, Jews that you can't "become" Jewish -- you're born a Jew. I have a couple of friends who were born and raised Christian, and converted to Judism when they married. When speaking of religion, each would tell you that she's a practicing Jew. However, if one of their children was doing a school project on family heritage and asked what she was, each of these women would say "Your father is Jewish, I am Itallian (or Scotch and German), and you are Jewish".

Is it the perfect use of the word? No - I've acknowledged that I struggled to come up with the best word choice. But that's where I was coming from when I settled on the one I did.

[KayJay]

In reply to post #365:

skvorisdeadsorta said:

I also haven't read anywhere where Hezbollah wants to eliminate the entire Jewish Population of the world or the region. The only thing they want is their prisoners released and their access to their farms for food and TO NOT BE INVADED. How hard is it to understand that if Israel hadn't invaded in 82, you wouldn't have this shit in the first place?

I have removed the blah... blah... parts below that didn't have any bearing on your question and have included only the last paragraph. The rest may be read (or re-read) on post #344.

kj said:

I wish every civilized man, woman, and child would read this (particularly the last paragraph):

Speaking at a graduation ceremony in Haret Hreik, Nasrallah announced on October 22, 2002: "if they all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide."[58][59] The New York Times qualifies this as "genocidal thinking"[60], whereas the New York Sun likens it to the 1992 Hezbollah statement, which vowed, "It is an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the death of the last Jew on earth."[61] Michael Rubin qualifies his goal as genocide too, quoting Nasrallah ruling out "co-existence with" the Jews or "peace", as "they are a cancer which is liable to spread again at any moment."[62] The Age quotes him like so: "There is no solution to the conflict in this region except with the disappearance of Israel."[63]


Sources:

58. Nasrallah alleges "Christian Zionist" plot by Badih Chayban, The Daily Star, October 23, 2002
59. Hezbollah leader targets Christians, WorldNetDaily, October 23, 2002
60. The Enemy Within by Elena Lappin, The New York Times, May 23, 2004
61. Nasrallah's Nonsense, The New York Sun Staff Editorial, March 11, 2005
62. Eradication First - Before Diplomacy by Michael Rubin, American Enterprise Institute, July 17, 2006
63. Little choice for a defiant Israel, by Andrew Markus, The Age, July 15, 2006

[/i]

[/quote]

Please follow the link on post #364. Also, please read the interview I posted on post #367.

They are both interviews with Hezbollah Secretary General Sayed Hasan Nasrallah, with words from his mouth as they were uttered.

Now, I'm not taking "sides" yet... I don't have enough information to be able to do that intelligently. Give me time... I do know, though, that the friction between the two groups began LONG before now... and long before 1982. We may have to look back toward the end of WWII to see when this really began... In fact, for 1500 years Arabs and Jews lived in the same areas together with relative calm... it was in the middle of the 20th century that all hell began to break loose. Hmmm.....

You did make a good point when you said, "Much has been made in the U.S. media of the Syrian- and Iranian-origin weaponry used by Hezbollah in the escalating violence in Israel and Lebanon. There has been no parallel discussion of the origin of Israel's weaponry, the vast bulk of which is from the United States." on post #366, which I intend to investigate myself. We can't have a clear picture without looking thoroughly at both sides. Thank you for putting up the information!

[chrisfan]

kj said:

You did make a good point when you said, "Much has been made in the U.S. media of the Syrian- and Iranian-origin weaponry used by Hezbollah in the escalating violence in Israel and Lebanon. There has been no parallel discussion of the origin of Israel's weaponry, the vast bulk of which is from the United States." on post #366, which I intend to investigate myself. We can't have a clear picture without looking thoroughly at both sides. Thank you for putting up the information!

There's no question that foreign policy in general is full of hypocrisy. There is all sorts of "I can have these weapons, but no one else can" and "I can do X to my citizens, but no one else should" crap that goes on, and that's true of ALL nations. That acknowledged -- again I feel compelled to draw the HUGE distinction between arming an allied nation and arming a terrorist organization. Yes, Hezbollah does humanitarian things too ... and I'd argue that they do so as a means of recruitment. But they are a terrorist organization. They engage in terrorist activiites in order to carry out their goals, which include the stated goal of eliminating Jews from the earth.

I don't have a problem with drawing a line where it is acceptable to arm allied nations, but not okay to arm terrorist organizations.

[rockysigman]

As a cultural Jew, I've always thought it really odd when people referred to Jews as a race rather than just a religion, but it's a concept that's been around a long time, and certainly not something Chrisfan just came up with. A lot of Jews do consider it to be a race, and a lot of non-Jews do too. I've never really understood why, but Judaism has been talked about as being a race in various contexts historically.

[luke]

I dunno, seems plainly obvious to me that "Jewish" refers interchangeably to an ethnicity and a religion.

How this could be "news" to anyone is pretty baffling, though.

[rockysigman]

luke said:

I dunno, seems plainly obvious to me that "Jewish" refers interchangeably to an ethnicity and a religion.

How this could be "news" to anyone is pretty baffling, though.

Is ethnicity the same as race though?

Although I guess since race is a completely made up thing, it can sort of refer to whatever people want it to refer to.

[skvorisdeadsorta]

So, you would have been against the the War of Independence right Chrifan, since the Minutemen were a Terrorist organisation againt the Crown and all............

Whatever.

[skvorisdeadsorta]

I'm German, doesn't mean I'm Aryan or Lutheran, for what it's worth.

[strat-0]

Also, the word "race" used to have more meanings and connotations than it does today - it used to be used even for nationality, such as Churchill referring to the British as an "island race."

Interesting aside in that today I read that the governor of MA had to apologize for using the term "tar baby" (something sticky that entraps you, as in Br'er Rabbit) in a speech about the Big Dig. The PC police didn't like that because it has also been used as a racial epithet. Huh?? I suppose I'll have to come up with another name for the little furry creatures with mask-like faces that patrol up and down my creek at night looking for crawdads and other food. We've seen people get fired for using a word that sounds like an epithet (niggardly -- cheap, miserly), although they were reinstated, but now we must make sure a word hasn't been appropriated for unsavory alternative uses as well.

BTW, never use a big word when a more diminutive one will suffice.

[Galactus]

No worries Randal is taking porch monkey back. (I swear this the first and last time I will reference that)

[Nepenthe]

ded said:

No worries Randal is taking porch monkey back. (I swear this the first and last time I will reference that)

Saw it last weekend. Wanda Sykes was funny as hell! LOL

They are actually selling the shirts now.

[chrisfan]

skvorisdeadsorta said:

So, you would have been against the the War of Independence right Chrifan, since the Minutemen were a Terrorist organisation againt the Crown and all............

Whatever.

Can you please refer me Skvor to the document or other historical record that illustrates how the minute men advocated the complete and total destruction of all the British?

[skvorisdeadsorta]

Re: Israel VS Palestine
« Reply #388 on Today at 16:03 »





Can you please refer me Chrisfan to the document or other historical record that illustrates how Hezbollah advocated the complete and total destruction of all the Jews? That isn't from Fox News or various Conservative affiliated News?

Again, I have wondered for a long time if this sentiment would be there if Israel had played nice and didn't invade Lebanon on a 14 year cycle every time they get the whim. You keep invading someone and taking their farms for your own gains, eventually, I would hope that that group would raise up arms and say enough is enough, this has to stop. It's not like Israel has made it all that nice to live in the region either and I would hardly say that they have conceeded much as well.