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Post by luke on Oct 4, 2005 10:58:36 GMT -5
Yeah, what a cum guzzler.
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Post by riley on Oct 4, 2005 11:01:42 GMT -5
I think her selling out has been a lot harder for her than one might assume. Not so much cashing the cheques, but forcing herself into an image I'm not convinced she's bought into herself.
This goes for the vocal work as well. Her old vocals would waiver and sputter, but from honesty and just not being a highly trained singer. Her new vocals waiver because they're trying to get her to sing polished shit and it doesn't work and she knows it. Plus she's had bouts with confidence in the past, including stage fright, so I think she was more comfortable singing about blow jobs, out of tune, than singing about Gap jeans all serious like and almost in tune.
I almost thought she would go back to honest lo-fi stuff, since she took so much heat last time around, but apparently she's dead set on sucking for a while longer.
Whitchocolatespacegg was at least a pretty decent album that was more commercial than her previous work, without compromising as much. This newer stuff is just garbage.
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Post by luke on Oct 4, 2005 11:10:27 GMT -5
I think she's done for, m'self. I don't think she has it in her to make any more of the good low-fi stuff, at least not without it sounding entirely too contrived and resigned. She's marketed this pop garbage as sort of an anti-fanboy, "this is the music I make now, if you don't like it go buy the latest from Stephen Malkmus" sort of thing, and people are going to scoff at her trying to recapture her roots at this point. Trying to go back would be selling out way bigger than what she's doing now, which is just sucking.
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Post by riley on Oct 4, 2005 11:28:23 GMT -5
Very true. Hadn't really thought of that. She's put herself in sort of a no win situation.
I would say at least she's selling albums, but I just did a quick check at the RIAA Gold/Platinum database, and it looks like that last album didn't even sell Gold.
That's gotta be a drag. Trade in your credibility for Avril's writers/producers as well as her wardrobe, have a couple shitty songs with way too much play on the Eddie Bauer in store speakers and you can't even break half a million. Hope that Gap stuff is bringing some cash and Sony paid her on a non-commission basis.
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Post by Ampage on Oct 4, 2005 16:27:15 GMT -5
Well, well, well, look what I stumbled across. Listen fuckers! LOL! Yea yea you cant say anything I havent heard a million times before. Some good points were made, I do agree that she sharpened her own double edge sword, but........................there are some seriously good tunes on this album. I am picking it up tonight but have heard 7 songs and must say it is a great step in the right direction. If you get a chance check out Wind and the Mountain (one of her best songs in years), Everything (Between Us) total classic rock vibe, and Got My Own Thing (terrific funny lyrics, very phairian). And besides all that, she is still freaking hotter than should be legal.
And Tunes, you saw more bod on Exile's cover than Liz Phairs cover, why the disgust?
Carry on.
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Post by someone on Oct 4, 2005 16:30:56 GMT -5
The saddest thing about Liz Phair for me, is that it somehow tarnishes Exile in Guyville for me. I'm beginning to wonder if that was the lie, and she's finally coming out of the closet. Cause I saw her a little over a year ago, and she came out wearing a headset like Britney Spears instead of a microphone. And she sang Fuck and Run with this smirk on her face, like "this is how I got you dumbasses here, now you're gonna have to listen to three new songs off my new album." And she only played for an hour! Bitch.
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Post by Ampage on Oct 4, 2005 18:06:17 GMT -5
Yea, thats exactly it, your bad.
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Post by someone on Oct 4, 2005 18:17:51 GMT -5
Okay.
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Post by someone on Oct 4, 2005 18:33:18 GMT -5
Seriously. I get the impression what she never wanted to be was the indie queen who fucked guys in basements. I don't believe her selling out bothers her at all. I think her intention was to always be a pop star. If she had a voice like Aguilera, I think Liz Phair would have been singing on Disney soundtracks from the getgo. But since she doesn't, she was pushed into being an indie queen instead. This is all I can figure, because it's a shame what happened to her. But I think it's what she's wanted all along.
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Post by Rit on Oct 4, 2005 18:50:13 GMT -5
she tried to present herself as an edgy artist back in the day, got the nod from critics everywhere, but no major success, started to feel insecure about whether or not her "come fuck me" image was at the root of her indie acceptance, and then grew cynical in slow degrees about her music, conflating her understanding of the industry with problems in her own life and feelings of creative failure, which led to a period of dismantling and unpacking of her priorities and adolescent indie dreams, which made it possible for her to accept the captialist machine, and which is where she is now.
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Post by Rit on Oct 4, 2005 18:51:06 GMT -5
...er,something like that. i have no idea who liz phair is.
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Post by Ampage on Oct 4, 2005 19:38:36 GMT -5
Exactly. She was in college getting stoned and messing with a reel to reel. She was an art major, charcoal was her specialty. Music was not something she thouht she had a future in. Tapes got out, they ate it up and signed her. She was a young UNSEASONED performer, hence the stage fright. To me, thats a sign of a talent, can produce the goods but maybe not Janet on stage. But once it all got rolling, SURE she wants to be a star, she admits that. But to think thats what she wanted from her fogged out hazy daze of cannibis back in Oberlin you would be sadly mistaken. Plus she is hot......
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Post by someone on Oct 4, 2005 19:49:23 GMT -5
Why you embrace that though, is beyond me. I don't understand how you can reconcile enjoying her first two albums, and maybe her third, and then not saying that her last two are total fucking shite. It's one thing to evolve, it's another thing to abandon all credibility. So yeah, I think Exile in Guyville is the lie, and that this, this is her. I've been duped and she will never be forgiven.
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Post by Kensterberg on Oct 4, 2005 19:54:54 GMT -5
1. I've heard maybe three songs by Liz Phair, and don't love or hate any of 'em.
2. Isn't it possible that she was authentically who she appeared to be back in '93, and is who she appears to be today? That was then, this is now. They can both be "true" to who she is at that time, just as Dylan was "himself" when he recorded The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan, and for Blonde on Blonde, and for Street Legal. You don't have to give up Guyville to reject her latest stuff, nor do you have to hate Guyville to love the new songs. They aren't necessarily hooked together at all. I love Joe Strummer, but Cut the Crap sucks, period. Doesn't mean I lose my love for London Calling, or for Streetcore.
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Post by Ampage on Oct 4, 2005 19:56:10 GMT -5
I didnt embrace LP, I liked a few songs off of it but would never consider it shite. Have you listened to Top 40? The new cd is far and away superior but she still gets slagged because she made a "masterpiece" at one point. But if she tried to recapture that, she would be scolded for not moving on. Anyway, she is hot and more talented then anyone here judging her. Plus, she is hot.
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