Do politics keep you from liking certain artists?

[shin]

So do you acknowledge the fact that the Dixie Chicks did not in fact say anything directly to their "core audience", but that rather they heard about something second hand and punished them for it? You still have yet to explain how doing that constitutes them overestimating their fanbase.

You said so yourself, country music fans "found out" about it. Oh no, someone said something at one point not to my face that I don't agree with. How awful. Let's organize a boycott so they're forced to no longer think what they think if they want to maintain their careers. And why was it news that they said what they said? Who even cares in the first place? Why were reporters at a DC concert in England? Or if not, why write about it?

[Galactus]

jackory said:

ken said:

Or maybe the Dixie Chicks understood that controversy sells, as the fact that they sold out all over America proves.

You'll note that they have not released an album since said "controversy", so we have yet to find out to what extent it has helped or hurt their career or how well it "sells" in their particular case.
If I were a bettin' man I would put money on the probability that their career is on the downward spiral.

Actually they released a live album which sold extremely well...for a live album anyway.

[JACkory]

chrisfan said:

jackory said:

I'll be interested to see how the Dixie Chicks play out in the pop market.
I mean, they sucked pretty hard in their attempt at country...maybe they'll do better with pop...competing with Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake instead of Alison Krauss and Brad Paisley.

I like their music damnit. Country is a vast market. They certainly were not the same style as alison Krauss or Brad Paisley ... but neither is Gretchen Wilson and she seems to be doing okay.

Well, Krauss is pretty hardcore bluegrass and the Dixie Chicks have several songs that are what I'd call bluegrass-lite. Maybe not the same style, but close enough for a comparison, IMO.
Gretchen Wilson is savvy...she saw that the market was devoid of a female Bocephus and so she jumped on it. It didn't hurt that she can actually sing. It wasn't an accident that her record company let her establish a good-timin' rednec image with her first two singles ("Redneck Woman", "Here For the Party") and then sprung the 100-Proof Patsy Cline-esque country of "When I Think About Cheatin'" on the general public.
Wilson, as I pointed out in my blog when she had just released her 1st single/video, is going to be BIG. So far my prediction has been coming true, and she's only gonna get bigger.

[shin]

Alison Krauss is really great.

[JACkory]

Yeah, DED, you're right...they did release a live album.
It went to #15 on Billboard's 2004 year-end country chart.
Not bad, one might say, # 15 out of 25...but a LONG ways from the top-of-the-charts success of their first 3 albums.
Three guesses at who was #1...anyone?
A drop from the top 3 in recent years to #15 is a substantial loss of sales, obviously, and an indicator that the country market will be just as glad to see the Chicks turn pop as I am.

[JACkory]

shin said:

Alison Krauss is really great.

At least we can agree on that.

[Galactus]

jackory said:

Yeah, DED, you're right...they did release a live album.
It went to #15 on Billboard's 2004 year-end country chart.
Not bad, one might say, # 15 out of 25...but a LONG ways from the top-of-the-charts success of their first 3 albums.
Three guesses at who was #1...anyone?
A drop from the top 3 in recent years to #15 is a substantial loss of sales, obviously, and an indicator that the country market will be just as glad to see the Chicks turn pop as I am.

Yeah but it was a live album. Live albums NEVER sell as well a studio albums...unless you're Peter Frampton. Those are really good numbers for a live album. I'll go out on a limb and say it's probably one of the five highest selling live albums in country along with Flosom Prison, That Garth Brooks live album, Willie Nelson and Spyboy. I'll do some research.

[chrisfan]

shin said:

So do you acknowledge the fact that the Dixie Chicks did not in fact say anything directly to their "core audience", but that rather they heard about something second hand and punished them for it? You still have yet to explain how doing that constitutes them overestimating their fanbase.

You said so yourself, country music fans "found out" about it. Oh no, someone said something at one point not to my face that I don't agree with. How awful. Let's organize a boycott so they're forced to no longer think what they think if they want to maintain their careers. And why was it news that they said what they said? Who even cares in the first place? Why were reporters at a DC concert in England? Or if not, why write about it?

Shin, most fans of ANY entertainer don't have an opportunity to speak to those entertainers on a regular basis. Therefore, just about anything we hear from any of them is second hand information. Therefore, once again you're heading down an irrelevant path.

For me, the bottom line to my thoughts on the Dixie Chicks adventure is this ... When Natalie said what she said, she knew it would get out. Just like when Brad Pitt shacks up right now, he knows that it'll be noticed and reported. When Natalie said what she said she either A) Did not really understand where her fan base's loyalties were, and what their priorities were. If that is the case, then it explains the shock and hurt that she and the rest of the group expressed over the reaction. OR B) She knew exactly what the uproar would be, understood the country audience to a T, and saw it as an opportunity to launch the group out of being big in the country world into a more mainstream popularity.

If you believe the crocodile tears to Diane Sawyer were sincere, then you've gotta go with A. If you believe that she knew exactly what she was doing, then you've got to go with B.

Either way, I'm not writing them off to some sort of vast right wing conspiracy.

[skvorisdeadsorta]

Hey, JAC, have you heard Nickel Creek? I heard one song from them that was pretty good, and it has a nice newer bluegrass sound to it, no where near as cool as Allison Krauss but it's pretty good stuff.

[JACkory]

Yeah, skvor...Nickel Creek have some good stuff floating around out there. Really talented youngsters in that trio. I do believe Allison Krauss had a hand in producing them and getting them some exposure.

[Artknocker]

Don't forget that the Ditzy Chicks chose an English crowd to mouth off to instead of having the balls to do it in Texas--or anywhere in America for that matter. They only felt safe or comfortable saying what they did to a foreign and likely more receptive audience that they could pander to. I find it ironic that the Chicks were so concerned about their fan base in England that they felt compelled to clear the air to those who might otherwise mistake them for your typical redneck country act, but they ended up alienating their much larger fan base in America. But the question I would like to address now is: is crossing over from country to pop selling out? I'd say so. Can you blame them or Shania Twain or Faith Hill for wanting even more fame and money? Probably not, although if you don't keep any elements of your roots, it's rather callous to abandon your initial audience that propelled you to the point where you're popular enough to cross over in the first place.

~

The Stones are only doing what they do best...jumping on a potentially finance-reaping bandwagon.--JAC

To me, it seems like a marketing push rather than a political statement, and that's rather pathetic.—CF


I agree with you two. I don’t have a problem with them making the song so as much as what the underlying reasons might be. I expect everything from famous people to be anti-conservative; it’s certainly nothing shocking by now. As for should the Stones retire, imo, they probably should have bowed out after they released that album that has “Love Is Strong” on it, if not sooner. I thought they were past their prime then, but then again, I’ve never really cared for the Stones. I prefer the Beatles and Zep, and I don’t even like all the songs by either one of them. Anyway, can you blame them for continuing to tour if they keep managing to sell out? Not really—it’s supply and demand--but if the ticket prices (I know—they are the Stones!) are gouging their fans (think Eagles and Fleetwood Mac), that’s just a bit much. I just don’t think any two-hour concert is worth going to if the price is more than $100 for the front section or $50 for other seats. If you’ve got the money to blow, sure you don’t care, but if you can’t afford it (and a lot of us can't), it might be your last chance or only chance to see a favorite band of yours. I’ve also got a problem with farewell tours that don’t turn out to be the swan song after all, and there’s always plenty of suckers that will dole out the cash for a second, third or fourth farewell!

[chrisfan]

Now I recognize that it could be argued that crossing over from ANYTHING into pop music is selling out, because pop music is by defintion giving the masses what they want. But that said, why is crossing over from country or from any genre of music for that matter, into another one selling out? Where was the rule set that you have to stick with the style of music that you broke your chops on? A good actor can and does bounce from comedy to drama. A painter can go from a period of impressionism to a period of cubism. Why can't a musician do the same?

[chrisfan]

BTW Ken - you do realize that once again you're latching on to ONE sentence from each Jac and myself, saying that you agree with US when you actually agree with one line from each of us, right? In this case, Jac more so than me has said A LOT more on the Stones than the one tidbit you've quoted.

[Artknocker]

I'm not Ken. But fer chrissakes, CF--I agree with those particular sentences you two said, all right? Do I have to address all of your posts in their entirety? Those points were all I wanted to talk about.

If an act goes into one genre of music with the sole intention of crossing over once they get the chance--playing country but never intending to stick to it--I see it as being dishonest and disloyal to their fans.

[Howenstein]

I got a little tired of Springsteen stumping for Kerry, but I won't turn off 'Rosalita' when it comes on.