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Post by Galactus on Jan 16, 2006 13:21:18 GMT -5
To recap. I feel like the greatest album of all time should really qualify for almost every accolade one could thrust upon it. It should be historically, socialy, commercially, criticly and any other "ly" you care to add.
I don't really think that a "greatest album of all time" exist but I do think you could reasonably come up with contenders for the title. The catch is you have to explain why. If you'd like we can make a criteria of sorts and see if your album fits.
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Post by Galactus on Jan 16, 2006 13:27:26 GMT -5
I'd choose Pet Sounds here's why-
It's a clear benchmark in production and arrangements for "rock" albums.
It's the only album to keep a Beatles album from the #1 spot in the UK the week it was released.
It's was mixed in Stereo by a guy who's def in one ear.
It's been consistently critically applauded for forty years.
It has an entire box set dedicated to one album.
It makes Paul McCartney cry.
It was deemed worthy of competition and response in album form by the Beatles, who many feel simply must have made the greatest album of all time.
It is, quite simply, an amazing album.
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Post by Rit on Jan 16, 2006 13:37:02 GMT -5
i agree.
Mantis = 1..... Shin = 0
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Post by shin on Jan 16, 2006 14:45:53 GMT -5
The White Album.
The album still sounds fresh 40 years later. It was eons ahead of its time when it came out.
Out of 30 tracks, with two purposefully strange tracks (Revolution 9, Wild Honey Pie), only ONE is not at least 3 out of 5 stars: Why Don't We Do it in the Road? (and even then I'll take arguments in favor of it)
Source of the greatest backtracking hoax in music history (Revolution 9)
Inspiration for the most famous American serial killer in history (Helter Skelter, Piggies)
Deadly Beach Boys parody to put those upstart whippersnappers back in their places that's so good even DED will be singing along with the harmonies (Back in the USSR)
Source for four of the most famous Beatles album cut non-singles (Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da, Blackbird, Revolution 1, While My Guitar Gently Weeps)
Explains who the Walrus is: Paul (Glass Onion)
Sexually ambiguous, generally perverted, way ahead of what American culture could handle (Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da, Sexy Sadie, Why Don't We Do it in the Road?, Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except For Me and My Monkey)
Wonderfully violent and macabre (Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill, Yer Blues, Rocky Raccoon, Piggies, Helter Skelter, Happiness is a Warm Gun)
Heavy statements on current events/civil rights (Blackbird, Revolution 1, Back in the USSR)
Tender lullabies dedicated to mothers and various gentle women (Julia, Mother Nature's Son, Dear Prudence, Blackbird)
Rollicking vaudeville romps by Paul McCartney (Martha My Dear, Honey Pie, I Will)
Foot stomping blues by John Lennon (Yer Blues, I'm So Tired)
George Harrison's greatest epic (While My Guitar Gently Weeps)
Christ, even the Ringo song is good.
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Post by shin on Jan 16, 2006 14:46:22 GMT -5
Did I mention the album is fucking haunted?
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Post by shin on Jan 16, 2006 14:54:24 GMT -5
AMG has half of Pet Sounds' tracks reviewed. White Album has ALL of the tracks reviewed except Good Night (?), even Wild Honey Pie. Also compare covers:   I don't think the greatest album of all time should have goats on the cover. Meanwhile the Beatles are all like "yeah we don't even need anything but text, that's how badass this album is." |
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Post by rockysigman on Jan 16, 2006 14:59:19 GMT -5
That's only because they couldn't get away with the cover they wanted for it. If having less on the cover is a qualification for greatest album, then Spinal Tap has to enter the discussion. They didn't even put the band name on it.  |
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Post by shin on Jan 16, 2006 15:02:05 GMT -5
That's only because they couldn't get away with the cover they wanted for it. Boy, if that doesn't scream "best album of all time" I don't know what does. |
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Post by rockysigman on Jan 16, 2006 15:04:10 GMT -5
You say that as if it's the only time it's ever happened.
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Post by Galactus on Jan 16, 2006 15:07:03 GMT -5
Very good, shin. Thank you. You're right the cover of Pet Sounds sucks. You forgot that the White Album is not only the best selling double album to date but that it also hold the world record in Guiness for opening week sales.
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Post by shin on Jan 16, 2006 15:20:12 GMT -5
You say that as if it's the only time it's ever happened. I just think it's a pretty big blotch on an album's resume when applying for "best of all time" status. |
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Post by Kensterberg on Jan 16, 2006 15:28:42 GMT -5
Why "The Beatles" (popularly known as The White Album) is not the greatest album of all time ... It's not the best Beatles album: Rubber Soul, Revolver, and Abbey Road are all at least as good, if not better. And Help! isn't far off the pace. Obvious filler: Revolution 9 (unlistenable by any measure); Wild Honey Pie (and the point of this would be ...?); Long, Long, Long (George's least appealing late period track by a long shot); Good Night; Why Don't We Do It In the Road? (because, Paul, there's no verse to this song, just a single repeated riff!). The greatest album in rock doesn't have a full side of filler! No number one single. Ordinarily, this wouldn't count as a mark against it, but in an age when rock and roll was still a singles dominated industry (and the Beatles had more succesful ones than any of their peers), this certainly has to count for something. And since it was made a point in this discussion, the lack of singles certainly hurts this album. Lots of lyrics that mean literally nothing, and people pretend that they're deep. Examples include Glass Onion (this is really a bad Beatlesong, Lennon's vocals are the only really compelling thing about it); Helter Skelter (doesn't mean a damn thing, it's about riding a fucking roller-coaster, fer chrissakes!); Happiness is a Warm Gun (though these do equal some kind of surreal expressionism, a la Dylan four years earlier); and Birthday (which I don't think is a bad song, but Paul was at his laziest as a Beatle with these lyrics, presaging what would happen once the band broke up). And that doesn't even include the obvious filler mentioned above. This record wasn't the product of a functioning band. Most of the tracks have no more than three Beatles on them. This was really more of a four-way solo project. A damn good one, but really a solo effort, not a "Beatles" album. That said, the good stuff on The Beatles is incredibly good. So much so that it almost outweighs these negatives, and good enough to keep it in the first tier of Beatles albums. But there's no way in hell it's the greatest album in rock. Pet Sounds isn't either, BTW, as anyone with ears to hear knows.  |
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Post by Galactus on Jan 16, 2006 15:35:16 GMT -5
Ken pretty much nailed why it still isn't the greatest album ever, though that last sentence was just uncalled for. Nonetheless, shin's entry is still accepted. Now it's time for someone to attempt to justify The Velvet Underground & Nico...I just don't think it can be done.
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Post by Kensterberg on Jan 16, 2006 15:42:27 GMT -5
Pet Sounds is not the Greatest Album in rock because ...
It's got barbershop harmonies all over it! Real rock and roll albums just don't feature barbershop quartets!
It may be a beautiful sounding album, but it's by no means unique, and really this just reflects a care and attention to detail in recording, not any great creative achievement.
How many songs does the average person know from this album? Well? How many hit singles came off it? Again, I don't know if these are particularly relevant points, but since commercial success was made a part of this discussion, we've got to consider that this one didn't score a bunch of hit singles during a time when rock and roll was dominated by singles.
It may have inspired Sgt. Pepper, but that argument gets you nowhere b/c Sgt. Pepper is a better record, and it's nowhere near the best Beatles album. And anyway, Pet Sounds was the Beach Boys response to Revolver, so wouldn't that make Revolver a better album, too? This is a red herring. Wilson inspired Lennon and McCartney, sure, but they simply produced better works.
It has Mike Love on it. Great rock and roll albums do not have Mike Love associated with them. Period.
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Post by phil on Jan 16, 2006 15:47:04 GMT -5
Why Velvet Underground & Nico is not the "Greatest Album of All Time" ... It has Nico on it ... Case closed ...  |
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