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Post by melon1 on Apr 17, 2006 17:52:25 GMT -5
This is the board originally entitled "Ken Holzman: Expert of Rock n' Roll" until he requested the name be changed. So it is here that anyone, and usually Ken probably, can review albums or dissect their favorite or least favorite bands: tell what they like or hate about 'em. Sure, there are plenty other boards for such subject matter already, but this thread has already begun, so I'll guess we'll continue.
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Post by melon1 on Apr 17, 2006 17:54:24 GMT -5
Here's your first question:
I noticed that you wrote an essay on why Led Zeppelin were nothing but "wankers" while having the audacity to declare that Rush weren't. Rush is obviously guilty of as much wankery as any band ever. Can you tell me where I'm going wrong here?
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Post by Galactus on Apr 17, 2006 21:03:59 GMT -5
Well, I'm not ken but I am bored so I'm going to tell you what I think. I define wankery as excess of playitude (yes the definition should sound a wanky as what it describes). That is too say playing for the sake of showing off your skills rather then what's necessary within the context of the song. That being said Rush play complicated stuff because they write complicated songs. Zeppelin have drum and guitar solos that are far too long because they want people to think they're awesome.
BTW I don't agree that Hendrix and SRV aren't wankers as well. I think pretty much every band wanks from time to time, some more sutbly then others and that's not a bad thing. Rush do wank just less then Zeppelin.
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Post by Kensterberg on Apr 17, 2006 21:15:16 GMT -5
DED beat me to it with the answer to T's question. Yeah, wankery is pointless playing. Everyone can wank, well, except maybe the Ramones. You've got to be able to play a proper solo before you can wank. Wankery is the musical equivilant of masturbation - it's the artist playing purely for their own satisfaction, with no thought towards a greater end. Rush have the potential to be total wankers, but they rarely give in to it. Damn few pointless solos in Rush songs, particularly in the studio. Peart is a wanker b/c he's done (how many?) recorded drum features in Rush live recordings? Any "drum solo" that goes on beyond about 8 bars is at least 6 bars too long. Seriously! There are lots of artists who alternate between greatness and wankery. Radiohead are the perfect example of this: Kid A and (especially) Amnesiac are total studio wankery, but OK Computer and Hail to the Thief are both brilliant (though OKC is marred by some pointless instrumentation). You can make the argument that Kid A is meant to be a studio montage, and so the wanking involved in its creation is a necessary means to that end, but that's an ad hoc rationale IMHO, given by people who adore every note produced by Mr. Yorke and his associates to justify their obsession. Does that make sense? 'Cause I'm not planning on writing a whole hell of a lot more on this topic ... it would just be wanking, after all.  |
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Post by rockysigman on Apr 17, 2006 21:20:38 GMT -5
Ken, I just got back from meeting with Mick Jones, and we've decided that your recent Rush love requires you to turn in your punk rock credentials. Hand 'em over.
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Post by Kensterberg on Apr 17, 2006 21:25:04 GMT -5
Ken, I just got back from meeting with Mick Jones, and we've decided that your recent Rush love requires you to turn in your punk rock credentials. Hand 'em over. Yeah, well Mick's got a hell of a lot of 'splanin' to do about the latter Big Audio Dynamite releases in order to keep his own papers! Seriously, my recent "defense" of Rush should not be taken as an endorsement, either express or implied, of the entire Rush catalog. I'll say nice things about Moving Pictures, "Spirit of the Radio," and a few other tracks. But remember that I'm saying generally good things about Rush solely in the context of extolling them over Led Zeppelin, a band that I have loathed for as long as I have been a rock and roll fanatic. So this is a very, very limited endorsement of Rush. I'm no Drum or Riley, that's for sure! |
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Post by frag on Apr 17, 2006 21:28:23 GMT -5
Eddie Van Halen = The Wank King
Ken, speaking of which, on the second disc that I sent you (I think it's the second to last track) there is a song called "XXXplosion," where we got really drunk on cheap scotch and decided to make fun of Van Halen's wankery. Seven and a half minutes of...a one-minute plus guitar solo, slurred sex vocals about STDs and to cap it off...a three and a half minute bass solo. You'll love it. I dare you to make it through that whole track. Hell, I don't think I ever have and I was there.
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Post by Kensterberg on Apr 17, 2006 21:33:16 GMT -5
LMAO Frag!
Those discs just showed up today (BTW, for Paul Cook, I got the Kinks discs as well, but haven't had a chance to listen to either of your stuff yet). I'll see if I can handle that VH rip-off track.
And you nailed Eddie perfectly as the Wank King! Brilliant technique, but no soul.
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Post by limitdeditionlayla on Apr 17, 2006 21:55:46 GMT -5
Zeppelin have drum and guitar solos that are far too long because they want people to think they're awesome. OR...Zeppelin have drum & guitar solos that are appropriate in length because they are awesome & they simply cannot contain their awesomeness. Yes. Yes, I think so. |
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Post by Galactus on Apr 17, 2006 21:57:51 GMT -5
There is no way you can tell me Bozo's drum solo isn't too long. I love Bonham. I think his probably the greatest rock drummer ever. His solo are too long.
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Post by frag on Apr 17, 2006 21:59:50 GMT -5
What is the point of a drum solo, if not for wanking?
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Post by Kensterberg on Apr 17, 2006 22:05:04 GMT -5
What is the point of a drum solo, if not for wanking? Exactly. Hence, there is no reason for the extended "drum solo." The form, as it has been practiced in rock and roll, is absolutely pointless, and therefore artistically bankrupt. Note that the most effective drummers in rock never waste everyone's time in such a self-indulgent manner. Ringo, Larry Mullen, Jr., Topper, Bill Berry ... great drumming is about doing what the song needs, not about banging on shit for ten minutes while the rest of the band takes a break. I hate fuckin' drum solos ... almost as much as I hate Fred Zeppelin. |
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Post by Galactus on Apr 17, 2006 22:08:53 GMT -5
What is the point of a drum solo, if not for wanking? Well as Ken pointed out this supposes there IS a point to solos. |
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Post by frag on Apr 17, 2006 22:13:51 GMT -5
a message from Tupelo the Kitty:
;jjjjjjjjjjjjj/'jkkkkkkkkkkkj[jjjj,rmrrr,tt
She really wanted on the keyboard, so I assumed she was going to chime in on the subject. I guess not. Or maybe she did and that's cat for Danny Carey and Bill Bruford rule. They could play very well...and even when they did and do drift into what could be deemed drum wankery, it's generally tasteful and is a directive of the song itself. See Tool's "Hooker with a Penis."
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Post by limitdeditionlayla on Apr 17, 2006 22:15:11 GMT -5
Theres never any point to solos! Even Wayne & Garth knew that.
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