The most important name in jazz?

[phil]

It doesn't get any better than this ...



The meeting of two Jazz geniuses !!

[digmomusic]

Satchmo deserves at least one vote!

[skvorisdeadsorta]

Alright, no votes for Coltrane? SHAME!!!!

I fixed that terrible issue right there.

What's with the absence of Sun Ra, peeps? Eh?

[rockysigman]

Sun Ra was pretty amazing...but the most important name in jazz? I think that it's a stretch to include him in that conversation. Certainly he's been quite influential, but I really don't see how a case could be made for his importance to be up there alongside Miles Davis, the Duke, etc.

[skvorisdeadsorta]

I can: all modern experimental Jazz can be traced back to that one dude. Hell, even Yo La Tengo covered one of his songs!!!!

Also left out that is for shame:
Eric Dolphy
Thelonius Monk
Charles Mingus
Count Basie

[rockysigman]

I agree that you could make a good case for him as one of the most important names in experimental jazz. But as far as jazz as a whole...well, Miles Davis was hugely influential on all modern experimental jazz too, but then also on every other style too.

[skvorisdeadsorta]

Ah, but Sun Ra has spanned Genres much like Davis and his piano abilities has crossed over into more normal jazz. He also is the only guy who's backing band still continues to sell out venues just on the mere name of being the former guys of SUN RA's band.

Dude, I'm telling you, he should be up there.

[Kensterberg]

When you're talking about Armstrong, you're talking about the guy who pretty much invented and defined the primary method of playing (if not THE then certainly one of) the signature instruments of the genre, no small feat. The very notion of how to play what we all recognize as a jazz solo comes largely from what Armstrong did, and then popularized.

Ellington was quite simply not just one of jazz's greatest band leaders, but also quite possibly the greatest composer the genre has produced.

And Miles ... Miles participated not just in the growth of, but also in the very formation of every significant style of jazz from 1945 through 1970 or so. The fact that he also put together multiple groupings of players widely considered to rank among the finest jazz bands ever testifies to his ear for talent, and the fact that none of these groups sounded like the others is a monument to his own diverse musical tastes and range. Listen to In a Silent Way, Birth of the Cool, Kind of Blue, Seven Steps to Heaven, and Bitches Brew to hear just how broad of swath he cut. Few in jazz can match Miles' accomplishments in any one area of the genre, and none of those can equal his breadth.

Monk, Basie, and all those other guys were great and a comprehensive history of jazz would be incomplete without them. But when it comes to talking about the single most important name in jazz, it just has to be Miles. Remove him from the history of jazz, and you have these huge holes where you can tell something happened, but you don't know how the music moved from point to point. In breadth and depth of catalog, Miles is quite possibly the most important name not just in jazz, but in the entire twentieth century musical canon.

(Can you tell that I spent a good chunk of the week listening to Miles? I am in awe, absolute AWE of the man's ability to perform so well in so many different styles and so many killer groups, all of which wind up sounding completely different but completely Miles. Miles Davis rocks! Um, swings? No, MILES ROCKS!).

;D ;D

[Galactus]

The thing is pretty much anything you can say about Miles, you can also say about Ellington. The only difference is Miles did it with smaller combos and Duke did it with an orchestra. I didn't really expect any other outcome from this poll. Armstrong and Ellington built the house though. Davis will always be seen as more hip because he was moving away from the standard all the time...the standards set by Ellington. It's merely a question of traditional vs. experimental. Combos vs. orchestras. In the end it comes down to personal tastes. I don't think you can honestly say Miles Davis contributed more to the world jazz however it is fair to say his contributions had a larger influence on what came after.

"Um, swings? No, MILES ROCKS!" exactly.

[Kensterberg]

DED -- We really are seeing the same thing, just from two different perspectives, I think. I've got no problem putting Duke right up there, and if we were having this discussion in 1965, I'd be right with you on naming Ellington as the most important. But what Miles did from '65-'70 just sealed his claim to this title. I don't think there is a jazz player working in the last thirty years who isn't emulating Miles in some way, and who isn't also reacting to and rebelling against other things that Miles did. He just worked in so many different styles (and was almost always instrumental in defining those styles), that everything from large group (Sketches of Spain, anyone?) to the most minimal of trios and quartets to the most experimental combos owe a debt to him.

But if Ellington hadn't existed, then the shape of Miles' career (and the music that we know as jazz) would have surely been very different. These guys were giants (as was Armstrong, and Trane, and a bunch of the others mentioned), and in some ways the last one to stroll through is the one whose impact is the most obvious. Miles, Duke, Satchmo, without any of 'em our musical history would be very different, and much poorer.

But if it's my money involved, it's miles and miles of Miles.

[Galactus]

I think, while it may get me some enemies, it's worth noting that Miles didn't actually start many of the movements he was the forefront of...Miles had great ears and much of his talent was bringing the out best in others. A number of his side men were already dabling in some of those areas before they started playing with Davis. I don't think that takes away from his accomplishment...it just put them in a slightly different light. For instance Tony Williams was playing fusion as much as a year or maybe even two years before playing with Davis...much what Davis did with hard bop was built on the drumming of Max Roach who'd been exploring different rythyms already. The shift in jazz from swing to bop lies in melody vs. chords and much that shift was spearheaded by Charlie Parker...it's the reason he's up there. Again I'm not suggesting Miles is a wrong answer because his influcence on Jazz is immeasurable but looking at it in proper context is important. Like with most things I don't think there is "right" answer, no single best anything. Questions like these are more about the discussion then the answer anyway.

[phil]

Ellington also played(piano)in many small Jazz bands but
he never frayed too far from Swing and/or "classical" forms of Jazz ...

Miles Davis may not be the only jazzman to have a 50 years career but he's the only one to be associated to(almost)every single Jazz "New Waves" and he was, most often than not, the instigator of many of those genres !

His discography is by itself a Jazz anthology !!

[phil]

If we're to include more players in the pantheon of Jazz ...

We might as well give the nod to Dizzy Gillespie ...

Charlie Parker and him did invent Be-Bop after all !!

[phil]

I'd rather Be-Bop than Rock ... !!

[sisyphus]

kenholzman said:

(Can you tell that I spent a good chunk of the week listening to Miles? I am in awe, absolute AWE of the man's ability to perform so well in so many different styles and so many killer groups, all of which wind up sounding completely different but completely Miles. Miles Davis rocks! Um, swings? No, MILES ROCKS!).

;D ;D

indeed. and rock IS far better than bebop.