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Post by chrisfan on Mar 14, 2006 9:03:42 GMT -5
Because whether people want to acknowledge it or not, that clump of cells we're sucking out is a life. Abortion is not the insurance. Birth control isn't really the insurance. Thinking about the choice BEFORE having sex is the most important insurance you can have. If you sit down at the black jack table, you may win money. You also may lose money. You need to think about whether or not you can afford it BEFORE you put the chips down - not after when you want some kind of out to the negative consequence of your actions. The responsibility, which I see failing too often, is to consider the consequences BEFORE engaging in sex to begin with. Those people who'd be lousy parents who've been mentioned up thread? Why are they sleeping around to begin with?
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Post by luke on Mar 14, 2006 9:23:19 GMT -5
Those people who'd be lousy parents who've been mentioned up thread? Why are they sleeping around to begin with? Because they're too irresponsible to even remember birth control, much less not have sex. If they were responsible enough to take things into consideration, then maybe they'd be fit to have kids. But obviously, they're not. |
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Post by kmc on Mar 14, 2006 9:45:32 GMT -5
Because whether people want to acknowledge it or not, that clump of cells we're sucking out is a life. Abortion is not the insurance. Birth control isn't really the insurance. Thinking about the choice BEFORE having sex is the most important insurance you can have. If you sit down at the black jack table, you may win money. You also may lose money. You need to think about whether or not you can afford it BEFORE you put the chips down - not after when you want some kind of out to the negative consequence of your actions. The responsibility, which I see failing too often, is to consider the consequences BEFORE engaging in sex to begin with. Those people who'd be lousy parents who've been mentioned up thread? Why are they sleeping around to begin with? That, ladies and gentlemen, is the argument of a closet pro-lifer. |
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Post by phil on Mar 14, 2006 9:49:02 GMT -5
And a Puritan ... !!
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Post by kmc on Mar 14, 2006 9:59:19 GMT -5
Debatable at best.
Again, unless you acknowledge a fetus at some indeterminate state to be a life (which, as mentioned above, is highly debatable) this responsibility obsession is really just a nuisance. There's nothing wrong with taking an out for a negative situation. I would never advocate abortion as a method of birth control, but seriously, this conservative insistence that people should just have to endure an unwanted pregnancy because they "screwed up" smacks of a desire for punishment.
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Post by phil on Mar 14, 2006 10:00:04 GMT -5
Bottom line is ... In an Ideal World, there would be no need for abortion
because every man and woman would be responsible people,
birth control methods would never fail,
rape and drunk sex would be inconceivable
and every foetus would be conceived free of genetic diseases or malformations ...
Until then ... We can discuss it until the cows come home,
abortion is a PRIVATE matter between a woman and her doctor
and it should stay that way !!
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Post by Kensterberg on Mar 14, 2006 10:02:28 GMT -5
Bottom line is ... In an Ideal World, there would be no need for abortion because every man and woman would be responsible people, birth control methods would never fail, rape and drunk sex would be inconceivable and every foetus would be conceived free of genetic diseases or malformations ... Until then ... We can discuss it until the cows come home, abortion is a PRIVATE matter between a woman and her doctor and it should stay that way !! Amen. |
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Post by phil on Mar 14, 2006 10:07:21 GMT -5
And I'd like to reiterate that I would have no problem
outlawing abortion past the fifth month of pregnancy
unless of course, the woman's life is threatened
or the foetus is malformed ...
Anyway, I'd like to see statistics showing
the number(and reasons) for abortions
past the first three months.
Can't be that many ... I hope !!
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Post by chrisfan on Mar 14, 2006 10:07:51 GMT -5
Debatable at best. Again, unless you acknowledge a fetus at some indeterminate state to be a life (which, as mentioned above, is highly debatable) this responsibility obsession is really just a nuisance. There's nothing wrong with taking an out for a negative situation. I would never advocate abortion as a method of birth control, but seriously, this conservative insistence that people should just have to endure an unwanted pregnancy because they "screwed up" smacks of a desire for punishment. That Kenny, is because you're more interested in namecalling and nitpicking over views which differ from yours than you are in accepting that differnt people can have different viewpoints, and that's okay. Just to be clear Kenny, I think it's a bit off to label me as a closet pro-lifer. For many purposes, I AM a pro-lifer. I do believe that a fetus is life. I do believe that abortion is a horrible procedure. I do believe that Roe was a bad decision which should be overturned. Where I differ from the pro-life movement is on the issue of whether or not abortion should be illegal. I believe that each state should be left to decide it's status, and I believe that each state should make abortion legal. I am in favor of some limitations to abortion - ie parental consent. But as undesirable as abortion is, there are some cases where the procedure IS appropriate. Those cases include rape, medical necessity, and some extreme cases where circumstances change during a pregnancy. I beleive that there would be more harm than good done by outlawing abortion. That's irresponsible lawmaking. So I don't think that abortion should be illegal. I'd love to see abortion be eliminated for the most part. But I think the way to go about that is through a lack of demand, not a lack of supply. Do I think that women should be "punished" by being "forced" to carry a pregnancy to birth? Last I checked, pregnancy was not a punishment. More importantly, last I checked, pregnancy was preventable. We're not talking about some bizarre tumor like clump here that just appears in a woman's uterus through no fault of her own. Most of us learn by sixth grade at the latest how that baby gets in there to begin with. I think the focus of "it's not fair" after the fact is in COMPLETELY the wrong place. That's all I'm saying. Punishment? No - wrong focus. |
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Post by Galactus on Mar 14, 2006 10:15:53 GMT -5
OK, I understand what chrisfan is saying but what I don't understand is what that has to do with the legality of abortion. I agree, people should take responsibilty for their own life...now what? Are you suggesting their should be a process atempting to establish a moral responsibilty before one can have an abortion?
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Post by chrisfan on Mar 14, 2006 10:19:12 GMT -5
OK, I understand what chrisfan is saying but what I don't understand is what that has to do with the legality of abortion. I agree, people should take responsibilty for their own life...now what? Are you suggesting their should be a process atempting to establish a moral responsibilty before one can have an abortion? To be fair here Mantis, I jut added a bit to my previous post. Taking into consideration what was in the original post, when have I ever spoken out against the legality of abortion? |
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Post by Galactus on Mar 14, 2006 10:28:17 GMT -5
You haven't, which is why I'm not sure what the argument here is for...
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Post by Galactus on Mar 14, 2006 10:29:32 GMT -5
BTW I didn't say you were against leagal abortion, what I asked is what it had to do with the leagality of abortion.
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Post by kmc on Mar 14, 2006 10:32:29 GMT -5
I guess I just don't see why abstinence is anymore responsible than getting pregnant, not being ready for a child, and having an abortion. Both are exercises in responsibility. It's not a matter of "it's not fair" or anything of the sort. It's making a mistake, realizing it, and doing something to rectify it.
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Post by chrisfan on Mar 14, 2006 10:32:34 GMT -5
You asked if I think there should be a process established to determine the moral responsibility before one could have an abortion - no? So that deals with the legality.
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