Which Religion is the biggest physical threat?

[Rit]

what notions?

[Thorngrub]

Aw man, you kinda had to be there. When sisy logs on she can chime in w/some of the wack stuff we were saying. Jesse got us baked and I was already pumped from a wicked psychobilly show w/the Pagan Dead, plus I had just biked halfway across the city and was winded, yet still adrenalized, despite it being after midnight.

I began talking about how a tulip looks when it opens up. Pluck a tulip and study it carefully. Inside its bell shaped dome offered up to the sun is a hexagonal dark stained pattern with 6 insect-leg-looking spiny things around the pistil, which has its own interesting engorged shape. It is easy to ascertain how it is designed to attract the honey bee. That's what a tulip is - - this "station" for a worker honeybee to fly into and begin doing its "work".

What work is that, you say? Well the entire bottom-line business of keeping the flow of pollination going, of course -- an intricate process occurring at the tiniest, most specific level of reality -- one might call it working nature from the "ground up", and the bees literally perform this activity, dutifully and busily. Like they say, "busy as a bee", right?

Well I imagined - and I think its important for us to imagine things - even if they are mere fantasies -- often the process of speculation is a means of lubricating our thinking process, so that when we stumble across real, correct ideas we can get through those too -- I imagined how ironic it would be (and I really appreciate irony, which I feel often reflects fundamental truths) if "God" turned out to be, quite literally, the honebees themselves. The idea has a quaintness to it that I like. At the very least, its not difficult to imagine the bees as fundamental agents of "God" in any case (if not an aspect of God itself), and I like to imagine that the honeybees are the "Engineers", literally helping Creation along. Like seamstresses tirelessly working the bottom line of reality, helping to maintain the circuitous flow of life. I see the honeybees as "groundkeepers" or janitors, entrusted to perform this fundamental duty involving pollination via myriad species of flowers.

Now this is simply an exercise in "thinking outside the box", and here was my point of all this:

Let's just assume for the sake of argument that the honeybees literally ARE the "engineers" of creation. Notice how small they are, in comparison to us. And if you bring your focus down close to a tulip - - the "room" or "station" that the honeybee performs his crucial task in --- well, what if that level of reality -- the very small level which we must get down on our knees to examine closely -- what if that IS the real common denominator -level of reality (and not our titanic eye-level of mountainous cities) -?

It suggests the notion that what we perceive to be the "dominant species" of the planet, the Titans, the Leviathans, the Behemoths - - would be Ourselves, just like the dinosaurs were in a previous era. Because you see, it all becomes relative; if you contrast humans (who average about 6 feet tall, 160 pounds or so) with bees, then you can see that homo sapiens are quite literally GIGANTIC by comparison. Just like the dinosaurs. Meaning we're freakin' dinosaurs, after a fashion. (In comparison to the "gods" - the honeybees - that is.) Which are teensy tiny, able to fit in the palm of our hand.

All of this is to merely suggest the roles we (by "we" meaning, all species of life) each play in the maintenance of creation. Now if the bees are the "engineers" workin down in the boiler room keeping the thermodynamic balance of our ecosystem on an even keel so to speak, well obviously we homo sapiens have our own role, to.

And I believe that role is the stewardship of the earth. In a capacity similar to the bees, but employed w/a different task, we human beings are supposed to be the stewards of this planet. While the bees are doing their "bottom line electrical work" or whatnot, we are supposed to be the next level of a guiding hand -- the Watchmen - - the Caretakers -- also Janitors of a sort -- whose brains are supposed to have developed to the point where we can ascertain the importance of maintaining the integrity of our habitat.

We are failing miserably at this simple task. Many indigenous tribes throughout earth did not fail. They looked ahead 7 generations. They wasted not the flesh of each creature they killedl to help sustain their tribe. They maintained a balance with nature.

But now, we live in a world of "Life without Balance", or Koyaanisqatsi. It is because we "stewards" have failed to keep our egos in check. Our ego has swelled to the point we believe ourselves as, for one, actually being "seperate" from the rest of creation! And not only that, but "superior" ! Imagine that. Just because of our "titanic" size -- and the "anthills" of our empires -- we think of ourselves as somehow being "next to God". On a fundamental level we most likely are a part of God; but our role as "guardians" of creation is a humble one. No more important nor less so than the job assigned to the honeybees.

If we could ever get it in our heads that we're "only human" -- if we pulled our heads out of the clouds for a moment, and examined the tulips for instance, and what a crucial role they exchange w/the bees and all manner of insects -- we might renew our sense of wonder at this marvelously engineered universe and acceed that the most seemingly "trivial" roles are as noble and worthy as the most apparantly "kingly" roles.

Our Life has been delineated severely Out Of Balance, and we are facing the point where our own free wills and sense of superiority over the rest of Life is resulting NOT in the establishment/maintenance of HEAVEN ON EARTH (a state that has NOTHING to do with "the afterlife") but rather, quite unfortunately, in the degredation of the potential quality of life into a HELL ON EARTH (see: the state of the world today).

That is the way I see it, that Jesus was speaking of a CODE to live by which would help insure our role as the humble Guardians of this world by which to maintain and establish the Kingdom of Heaven here and now while we're breathing and alive.

We have forsaken his teachings in our egotistical quests for dominance and thus are busily paving the way straight to hell.

This trend could be reversed but it looks increasingly hopeless from where I stand.

[Kensterberg]

I was right, ThoRn's off his meds again.

[Rit]

That is the way I see it, that Jesus was speaking...to help insure our role as the humble Guardians of this world by which to maintain and establish the Kingdom of Heaven here and now while we're breathing and alive.

this i couldn't agree with you more on. it's a gnostic idea that rings true to me. the kingdom of heaven is now. not in the future.

[Thorngrub]

Yes. And it is constantly slipping through our fingers so long as we maintain priorities of greed and ego over that of selfless sacrifice and the maintenance of a proper balance for our ecosystem. i.e, we're gradually losing grip of heaven and transmuting it into hell. Dammit I wish we'd stop that shit...

[Rit]

and i also agree that life is out of balance... or at the very least, eco-imbalanced.

[Rit]

actually, that's the only way it's imbalanced. mentally, we're the same as we ever were. but phsyical demands on the environment have become too much.

[Matheus]

What do people expect when the population is getting larger and larger and everyone wants to be American while hating Americans?

And how in the hell is any religion a physical threat? It's humanity that's the threat not the religions that humanity perversifies.

[Rit]

it's partially humanity, partially the hierarchical structure of organizing a major religion in the first place. all (the major) religions are f*cked, in this case.

[Rit]

and no one wants to be American. that's a laugh. i don't anyway. I think you meant to say that people want to participate in the North American world of opportunities and possibilities, but yet hate that distinctive American way of life (which i don't blame them for). Far less people hate Canadians in any case. It's a matter of North America, not "america".

[Matheus]

Power structures are always a problem... too much saying "this is what you will believe" rather than letting a person read it themselves and figuring out what to believe.

If there is no questioning in the interim there can be no belief, IMO.

[poseidon]

Out of the poll choices above I chose Buddhism as that is probably the closest "name" I can put on my spiritual beliefs. I particularly like the Buddhist notion that "your enemy is actually your teacher." I practice that one frequently.

I certainly prayed last night. A monstor storm swept through town atound 2 a.m. My entire bedroom was shaking so I scooped Toodles up and jumped in the bathtub, where I crouched for about 10 minutes while everything was shaking. I live on the top floor in a two story apt. complex. This morning I went outside to walk Toodles and to survey the damage. Tree limbs are down, vents dangling or totally blown out. The worst damge is to the side of the building where one of my bedroom windows is located. All the plaster, paint and wood is peeled back to the black tarp. Now I understand why my bedroom was shaking so much! Electricity was out for 7 hours.

A frightening experience!

[Matheus]

ritalinpants said:

and no one wants to be American. that's a laugh. i don't anyway. I think you meant to say that people want to participate in the North American world of opportunities and possibilities, but yet hate that distinctive American way of life (which i don't blame them for). Far less people hate Canadians in any case. It's a matter of North America, not "america".

Laugh all you want, I guess. Do I really have to write out a three paragraph sum of what I meant everytime I say something, especially when you pretty much summed up what I meant in the first place? I think you understood just fine, and I really don't think I should have said it any other way.

[Kensterberg]

poseidon said:

Out of the poll choices above I chose Buddhism as that is probably the closest "name" I can put on my spiritual beliefs. I particularly like the Buddhist notion that "your enemy is actually your teacher." I practice that one frequently.

I certainly prayed last night. A monstor storm swept through town atound 2 a.m. My entire bedroom was shaking so I scooped Toodles up and jumped in the bathtub, where I crouched for about 10 minutes while everything was shaking. I live on the top floor in a two story apt. complex. This morning I went outside to walk Toodles and to survey the damage. Tree limbs are down, vents dangling or totally blown out. The worst damge is to the side of the building where one of my bedroom windows is located. All the plaster, paint and wood is peeled back to the black tarp. Now I understand why my bedroom was shaking so much! Electricity was out for 7 hours.

A frightening experience!

Damn, Pat, that sounds horrid. I saw footage of the Dallas area today and it's just insane. Glad you came through (more or less) in one piece. And most importantly, Toodles is alright.

[Kensterberg]

matheus said:

ritalinpants said:

and no one wants to be American. that's a laugh. i don't anyway. I think you meant to say that people want to participate in the North American world of opportunities and possibilities, but yet hate that distinctive American way of life (which i don't blame them for). Far less people hate Canadians in any case. It's a matter of North America, not "america".

Laugh all you want, I guess. Do I really have to write out a three paragraph sum of what I meant everytime I say something, especially when you pretty much summed up what I meant in the first place? I think you understood just fine, and I really don't think I should have said it any other way.

I actually agree with Mat. The rest of the world does want the American lifestyle -- all the glitz and glam that go along with places like Miami and L.A. -- not the more restrained Canadian version. And they also hate America b/c it it those things, and b/c we act like we own the world (particularly the current President and his staff). Other people both really dislike this and envy it. It's like in high school, the football quarterback and the prom king are both the most popular and most hated people in school, and other students can hold both opinions at the same time. I really do think that is how much of the rest of the world sees the US.