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Post by Kensterberg on Jun 7, 2006 21:02:37 GMT -5
You've got to be kidding me, Paul. Lennon had already gone soft ... look at his solo career. You've got the caustic, brilliant, but impossible to make a career out of, John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band, followed by the hit and miss (but primarily a soft pop album) Imagine, then the disasterous Some Time in New York City. After that, all you've got are mushy pop albums (Mind Games, Walls and Bridges) and a cover album that is generously termed erratic. After a long lay-off, John came back with, well, half a Paul McCartney album extolling the virtues of domestic bliss. While Double Fantasy was a huge improvement over anything he'd done since (at least) Imagine (if not JL/POB), it was hardly a "rocking" album ... hell, it wasn't even a particularly good McCartney album ... more London Town than Band on the Run or Venus and Mars.
Then listen to the stuff that didn't make the cut for Double Fantasy, or that he had written after its release ... the songs that came out on Milk and Honey were even sappier, closer still to James Taylor than to Instant Karma or the searing burn of Plastic Ono Band.
Lennon's legend is built around his best Beatles tunes, his first (and best) singles (Instant Karma and Cold Turkey), and those first two solo albums (JL/POB, Imagine), along with his Beatles persona and image. It's a testament to the power of those recordings and images that he is still so fondly remembered. But the clear fact is that John had jumped the shark years before his death, and it's very unlikely that he would have changed career trajectories after 1980.
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Post by Kensterberg on Jun 7, 2006 21:05:10 GMT -5
btw Ken, that Lennon-Wacko Jacko post was hilarious! Ah, if only...  I do agree about your predictions about Lennon. The same would've happened with all 60s/70s rock stars. Had they lived, they [obviously] would've cleaned up their act and turned into MOR crap artists. Even Hendrix and Morrison would've turned into total pussies.. Hendrix would've turned into a quasi-jazz player, a la Carlos Santana. That's the only prediction I could make about him with any confidence at all. Morrison ... the Lizard Fool? He was a "total pussy" any way. Drunken buffoon, my friend, drunken buffoon ... |
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Post by Kensterberg on Jun 7, 2006 21:08:53 GMT -5
btw Ken, that Lennon-Wacko Jacko post was hilarious! Ah, if only... I do agree about your predictions about Lennon. The same would've happened with all 60s/70s rock stars. Had they lived, they [obviously] would've cleaned up their act and turned into MOR crap artists. Even Hendrix and Morrison would've turned into total pussies.. I dont know, theres artists like Neil Young and Chuck Berry who havent becoem pussies. I think Lennon would have been different. He certainly wouldnt have sold out ot the degree of a lameass Mick jaggar thing-a-ma-jobie... Considering that Berry has been a novelty act since somewhere around 1973, and Young spent most of the eighties making incredibly crappy records (remember Everybody's Rocking and Trans?), I'd hardly hold either of these guys up as icons who avoided MOR crap. I'll save the rest of my Neil Young rant for another time. BTW, how'd you find our little part of the web, pauledwardwagemann? |
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 7, 2006 21:12:24 GMT -5
To be fair, the songs on Milk and Honey were not finished. Double Fantasy I think shows a maturity from his previous albums. No, they weren't 'rockin' but the weren't PMac styled sell outs either (the mike jackson song 'say, say, say'? I mean Egad!!! And what about the lameass 'spies like us' corporate strokefest and the 'regards to Broadway' thing-a-ma-jobie?)
In the end I would stack Lennons five best songs from his solo career against PMac any day. And I'd most definately stack Harrison's five best against Pmac's 5 best.
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 7, 2006 21:18:16 GMT -5
I dont know, theres artists like Neil Young and Chuck Berry who havent becoem pussies. I think Lennon would have been different. He certainly wouldnt have sold out ot the degree of a lameass Mick jaggar thing-a-ma-jobie... Considering that Berry has been a novelty act since somewhere around 1973, and Young spent most of the eighties making incredibly crappy records (remember Everybody's Rocking and Trans?), I'd hardly hold either of these guys up as icons who avoided MOR crap. I'll save the rest of my Neil Young rant for another time. BTW, how'd you find our little part of the web, pauledwardwagemann? I saw Berry in concert in the 80s--without a doubt the best concert I'd ever seen. He played from the soul--not just going through the motions. And Neil Young is untouchable. A pillar of authenticity and soul. Theres not an artist alive who hasnt had an 'off' period--especially an artist who has been at it for over 40 years. As you probablly know NY was dealing with the serious diseases of his two sons during the 80s, and the ridiculous court battel wtih David Geffen...not making excuses, just giving context. |
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Post by Kensterberg on Jun 7, 2006 21:20:28 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what would you rate as Lennon's best solo work? Macca's?
John:
1. God, Pt. 1
2. Instant Karma
3. Cold Turkey
4. Working Class Hero
5. Imagine
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 7, 2006 23:10:07 GMT -5
Personally, "All Things Must Pass" owns both of those fools. It's a shame that my two favorite Beatles are dead. The only thing that I can look forward to now is the other two buying the farm.
Neil Young untouchable? Neil Young is a mamby pamby twee fucking dippy hippy. Neil Young fucking sucks.
Chuck Berry is a monster who has been playing the same songs for the last 45 years. Pretty easy to stay consistent when the only thing you are is an asshole with a nostalgia medicine show for geezers.
Beck has not had an off period, in my opinion. Not even close.
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 7, 2006 23:38:28 GMT -5
I also think that as I look at it, Lennon's solo albums (with the exception of Plastic Ono Band) are terribly poor compared to Paul's records.
However, one is reminded of "Say Say Say" and I start to sharpen my knife.
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Post by Kensterberg on Jun 7, 2006 23:43:33 GMT -5
Paul has indeed made a bunch of bad albums ... but John did too. For that matter, so did George and Ringo. Paul has made more bad albums, but that's really just b/c he has made a lot more records than his ex-bandmates.
And Tug of War was a particularly bad album, but frankly, it's no worse than Wall and Bridges ... and as bad as Say, Say, Say is ... I have a really hard time saying it's artistically any worse than Whatever Gets You Through the Night.
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Jun 7, 2006 23:54:47 GMT -5
True Dat. Whatever gets you through the night is frightening how bad it is.
George Harrison could have stopped after "All Things Must Pass" and he would have been hailed as a genius forever. Man, I just love that record.
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Post by Proud on Jun 8, 2006 0:31:02 GMT -5
How could one possibly insult I've got. My mind. Seeeeeeeeett on youuu! I've got. My mind. Seeeet on you.?
Has Paul done anything on his own particularly worth buying or even listening to a second time? I wouldn't know, as the only one of his solo albums I gave my ears to was Driving Rain, and it started dragging just a couple tunes in.
I'd much rather listen to Choose Love.
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Post by Kensterberg on Jun 8, 2006 0:43:32 GMT -5
Of course, "I've Got My Mind Set On You" was recorded some 17 or so years after All Things Must Pass, and just backs up my assertion that an (inevitable) eighties reunion by the Fab Four would not have been "the second coming."
Worthwhile Macca albums ... Band on the Run, Tug of War, Flowers in the Dirt, Venus and Mars. There are cases to be made for McCartney and Ram (though not by me), as well as a few others. But those four are all awfully good. Venus and Mars may be the least of these, and it's a better record start to finish than either Imagine or Double Fantasy.
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Post by Ryosuke on Jun 8, 2006 0:44:08 GMT -5
When it comes to modern bands and modern radio, I'd love to know if the record labels are as much to blame as people say they are, if ClearChannel or whatever radio giant's currently around is still worth pointing the finger at, or if it's a collective apathy toward music and life itself by not just recent artists but by society as a whole. *shrugs* Am I taking this too far? If people don't want to listen to good music and would rather listen to whatever they listen to these days (I have no idea what's popular now), then it's their own damn fault, is my take on it. |
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Post by pauledwardwagemann on Jun 8, 2006 12:05:00 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what would you rate as Lennon's best solo work? Macca's? John: 1. God, Pt. 1 2. Instant Karma 3. Cold Turkey 4. Working Class Hero 5. Imagine I dont really like ranking songs, but since I did make the challenge, I'll give you five Lennon songs that I think are very strong tunes. ~#9 dream ~Mother ~oh yoko ~give me some truth and then for #5 I'd go with either 'Instant karma', 'Flower Princess' or 'Beautiful boy' for PMac, I'll go with: ~Listen to what the man say ~coming up ~band on the run ~with a little luck ~someone's knocking on the door ...admittedly I dont have most of PMac's stuff whereas I have nearly everythign by Lennon. |
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Post by maarts on Jun 9, 2006 18:47:30 GMT -5
Now I recognise the name! thought I saw the boardname somewhere else! Good to see a fellow denizen of the MOJO-boards here, Paul!
Odd how the same thread on MOJO has gone all about Lynn drums, mods and the Smiths while here it's just another Beatlefest!
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