|
|
Post by Galactus on Aug 28, 2004 0:04:40 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by strat-0 on Aug 28, 2004 12:27:10 GMT -5
Pretty sick.
|
|
|
|
Post by stratman19 on Aug 28, 2004 13:07:09 GMT -5
I'm with you guys. That's fucking pathetic.
|
|
|
|
Post by stratman19 on Aug 28, 2004 13:17:08 GMT -5
While I'm not as disdainful to you, Stratman as DED is, I still feel like there's a glaring question coming what you has to say that must be answered before your argument makes any sense to me.
I apologize for taking so long to respond Rocky, just got busy. First, just to clear up a couple of things. I never thought that DED held me in disdain. We agree on virtually nothing, but I never had any problem with his posts. Pissin? Now that's another story...
Also, this post might be all over the place, I'm not that good at putting my thoughts down in any kind of coherent order, but hopefully I'll get them all down nontheless.
When I used the phrases "shoved in my face", and "jammed down my throat", I was perhaps being a bit harsh, as the day I posted that, I was frustrated and pissed off. However, those were the terms I used, so I will attempt to explain myself.
First though, when you say (How is a gay rights group pushing gay marriage an example of forcing their lifestyle in others faces but hunting groups pushing for laxer gun laws isn't? Lobbying government officials for favorable legislation is about as basic as democracy comes in a nation as large as this one.), I don't think the example is comparable. Gun ownwership is already a right, while gay marriage is not. As far as lobbying the government for favorable legislation, I would support any group's right to do so. However, if such legislation is something I disagree with, I will exercise my right to fight against it. That's democracy in action, and that's good.
Gay marriage was not the sole reason for my frustration, although it certainly was a component of it. I was frustrated, as I mentioned, with the process of getting the Michigan constitution amended, due to Doyle O'Connor's overstepping and misuse of his authority.
I get frustrated (pissed off) when mayors in California and New York (and perhaps other places) break the law, when marrying gay couples, simply because they don't agree with the law. I'm sorry, but we are a nation of laws. Failure to follow the law, and the belief that one can break any laws one disagrees with, especially as concerns elected officials, can result in anarchy, in my opinion.
I get upset and concerned with the very real possibilty that a handful of liberal judges in Massachusetts, through their rulings could very well have the result of forcing 49 other states to recognize gay marriage, whether they want to or not (although this has seemed to calm down for the moment).
I get pissed off when the gay lobby (and ACLU) attempts to force groups like the Boy Scouts to accept gay members. The Boy Scouts are a private organization, and should be able to set their own rules, without pressure from groups advocating a lifestyle with which they disagree.
I get upset when my daughter is taught in school that a homosexual lifestyle is normal, and a viable alternative. A point of view that her mother and I disagree with (as well as millions of other parents). I would also include the increasing incidents on TV (and movies) that attempt to portray the gay lifestyle as being in the mainstream, as if by blugeoning us over the head long enough, the gay lobby, ACLU, and Hollywood will get us to accept this lifestyle.
Rocky, these are just some examples where I feel the "shoved in my face" syndrome. Perhaps I'm overstating the whole nature of things, but I don't think I am. I really do feel that we are engaged in a culture war, a war in which the far left is attempting to force the rest of America to except it's beliefs and vision for America. I also believe that for the most part, most of America finds this distasteful, and when the far left can't get legislation passed, they attempt to force their beliefs on us through the courts. That pisses me off too.
I don't mind responding to you Rocky, because while we disagree on much, I at least feel that we can have an honest exchange, whereas I just ignore the juvenile kneejerking of Pissin and "someone". I also realize that this post may come across as me seeming to be incredibly intolerant. But honestly, I have no problem with gay people. I don't want them to be discriminated against in employment, education, etc. I don't even mind the notion of some legal way of recognizing a gay union, just don't call it marriage. I'm just tired of the gay lifestyle being foisted upon people that don't agree with it, as reflected (I hope) in the examples above.
I really hope this doesn't re-open this topic, as we have discussed it ad nauseum, but you did deserve a response to your post. I hope I did a reasonable job of explaining myself.
|
|
|
|
Post by melon1 on Aug 28, 2004 18:36:06 GMT -5
If Bush wins the election the most vehemenent Bush-haters will only get an inkling of an idea of the disgust people like myself felt when Clinton was re-elected in '96.  |
|
|
|
Post by Proud on Aug 28, 2004 20:30:21 GMT -5
if bush gets re-elected i'm doing severe physical damage to myself.
i'm not joking.
|
|
|
|
Post by stratman19 on Aug 28, 2004 20:40:43 GMT -5
if bush gets re-elected i'm doing severe physical damage to myself. i'm not joking. Well obviously while I hope Bush wins, there's no need for you to damage yourself Proud. I'll certainly not damage myself if Kerry wins, and I've been working hard for his defeat. Just remember this; the republic has been surviving elections for a coupla hundred years now.  |
|
|
|
Post by stratman19 on Aug 28, 2004 20:46:08 GMT -5
If Bush wins the election the most vehemenent Bush-haters will only get an inkling of an idea of the disgust people like myself felt when Clinton was re-elected in '96. I'm inclined to agree with you Melon, but even though Clinton was the first incumbent Democrat to win re-election since FDR (a very long time doncha think? ), we (Republicans) didn't put up a very strong candidate in '96 in Bob Dole. I suppose we deserved to get our asses kicked. |
|
|
|
Post by Proud on Aug 28, 2004 21:16:27 GMT -5
i thank you for your concern, but i said i would, and i shall do the honorable thing. those who live by the sword must die (uh... figuratively, anyway) by the sword!
|
|
|
|
Post by stratman19 on Aug 28, 2004 21:35:53 GMT -5
i thank you for your concern, but i said i would, and i shall do the honorable thing. those who live by the sword must die (uh... figuratively, anyway) by the sword! Well from where I sit, I hope you have to fall on your sword Proud (figuratively of course)! Your sense of "honor" is admirable, but reading what appears just below your avatar to the left of all your posts, makes it hard to take you seriously, to be honest. |
|
|
|
Post by Proud on Aug 28, 2004 21:40:54 GMT -5
it's there to pull people's chains.
(note: edited this post because i voted for it then i voted against it)
|
|
|
|
Post by melon1 on Aug 28, 2004 21:48:21 GMT -5
we (Republicans) didn't put up a very strong candidate in '96 in Bob Dole. I suppose we deserved to get our asses kicked.
I couldn't agree more, Stratman. But the problem is we hear so much these days about John Kerry's service in Vietnam but we didn't hear alot about the fact that Dole was an injured veteran running against a draftdodger during that election. No, he wasn't charismatic and was nothing like a movie star but those things shouldn't matter near as much as character and service to country. As far as Kerry's service goes, he can flaunt it all he wants. Even if I ignored all the numerous things I disagree with Kerry on because of his service for country I could never vote for him because of three words: partial-birth abortion.
|
|
|
|
Post by stratman19 on Aug 28, 2004 22:26:29 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more, Stratman. But the problem is we hear so much these days about John Kerry's service in Vietnam but we didn't hear alot about the fact that Dole was an injured veteran running against a draftdodger during that election. No, he wasn't charismatic and was nothing like a movie star but those things shouldn't matter near as much as character and service to country.
Melon, I agree, those things shouldn't matter, but they do unfortunately. In politics, it's style over substance, image is everything. Bob Dole is an honorable man, but he couldn't compete in the "charisma" dept., and I think his age was an issue too. Such is the nature of American politics.
|
|
|
|
Post by melon1 on Aug 28, 2004 23:37:26 GMT -5
Such is the nature of American politics. Sadly. 
|
|
|
|
Post by rockysigman on Aug 29, 2004 0:47:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the thoughtful response, Stratman.
I think I can understand a lot of where you're coming from. However, I also feel that judicial independence is a good thing, and although not all judicial activism is a good thing, I don't think it's bad in and of itself. Most important changes in society happen because judges are the one branch of government that can afford to observe certain rights that the other two branches cannot, due to electoral concerns. At least some of the Framers (namely James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and John Jay) fought for adoption of our Constitition because they felt that one of the biggest dangers of
democracy is the possibility of minorities being persecuted by a tyranical political majority, and that's exactly why the judiciary was made independent of the electorate. I know it's been pointed out endlessly, but let's not forget that if it weren't for judicial activism, segregation would still be the law of the land.
Furthermore, although I agree that private organizations have the right to accept or reject whoever they want, I think the Boy Scouts must be answerable to government to some degree since most troops use public schools for their meetings for free. If the government is going to give them benefits such as that, then I don't think it's unreasonable to require them to follow certain guidelines.
Personally, I feel as though the religious right is trying to force their views on "everyone else" just as much if not more than the far left is. But that's just me.
|
|
