CE 7

[chrisfan]

Pissin2 said:

If you are saying you're in love with someone, and someone asks you why, and your answer is "I just know I am" Then you're not really in love. You're basing it on something. You should be able to come up with plenty of reasons why you are in love with that person.

We know the sky is blue because as a society we have designated the word "blue" with that color that you see in the sky. But we don't know why the sky actually is that color no more than we know if there is a god.

But we have an explanation for the "why" involving the water that is in the atmosphere's refractory effect on light, or something like that. There are all sorts of things like that which we believe to be true, but have not each seen the categorical proof that they are true. We accept them as an absolute truth because, we just know.

I can come up with reasons why I know that God is a guiding force in my life. I can list them, and I have listed some of them. But that does not convince you. So why should a person's feeling of love be any different?

[Philemon]

www.why-is-the-sky-blue.org/why-is-the-sky-blue.html

[strat-0]

Um, the sky is blue because the wavelengths on the blue end of the spectrum are shorter than the red. The shorter wavelengths at the blue end of the spectrum are scattered by the atmosphere. Just FYI.

"Weekend at Bernie's" - Too funny, Rock!

[edit: Phil and I crossed - I was close...]

[pissin2]

Chrisfan said:

But we have an explanation for the "why" involving the water that is in the atmosphere's refractory effect on light, or something like that. There are all sorts of things like that which we believe to be true, but have not each seen the categorical proof that they are true. We accept them as an absolute truth because, we just know.

I can come up with reasons why I know that God is a guiding force in my life. I can list them, and I have listed some of them. But that does not convince you. So why should a person's feeling of love be any different?

You can come up with reasons why he's the guiding force for you, but you can't come up with reasons why you know he exists. That's the difference.

[Ampage]

Deadhorse? Hi, meet Pissin’.

[Thorngrub]

"But how do you know you can trust God?" - pissin


By the same fashion in which you know you can trust the air we breathe to keep us alive, and the water we drink to do the same. Do you trust in your own existence? Then you trust in god whether you understand that about yourself or not (IMO).

[Thorngrub]

Philemon said:

FAITH is, or should be, a state of openness or trust.
To have faith is like when you jump into a lake.
You don't grab hold of the water when you swim
because if you do you will become stiff and tight and sink.
You have to relax, and the attitude of faith
is the very opposite of clinging, and holding on.

In other words, a person who is fanatic in matters of religion,
and cling to certain ideas about the nature of God and the universe
becomes a person who has no faith at all.
Instead he is holding tight.

But the attitude of faith is to let go
and become open to truth
whatever it might turn out to be ...

This is the most beautiful thing I've read on these boards.

[pissin2]

Sometimes it feels like I'm beatin a deadhorse. I don't know why you'd be bringing me down. I'd like to think that our love's worth a tad more. It may sound funny, but you'd think be now I'd be smilin'. I guess some things never change.

Can something really be considered a deadhorse, when the other person you're talking to about it (that person NOT being you Amp) is still responding to it? If so, shouldn't Chris be called a deadhorse too?

Nothing Important To Say? Hi, meet Ampage. You two will get along great.

[JACkory]

So why not just put my faith in the blue sky, instead of God, and believe that the sky itself will help get me through everything?

Because "blue" and "the sky" are creations of what we're calling God here, though you don't have to call it that. Doesn't it make sense to believe that the One who created ALL THINGS did so with a purpose? And a benevolent one at that? And if so, then why would you "believe in" the creation but not the Creator?
Not all things are or will ever be "known". And that is where faith comes in...and that brings me to my next thought...
I agree with practically EVERYTHING Philemon has to say about faith and I think he put it very succinctly. The only qualm I have is the part about how "In other words, a person who is fanatic in matters of religion,
and cling to certain ideas about the nature of God and the universe
becomes a person who has no faith at all.
Instead he is holding tight."
And now that I re-read that section, I gotta say I see the total logic in that statement, too, but only inasmuch as the hypothetical "fanatic" has ideas about the nature of God that are definable and limited to his own perceptions. As long as a person's ideas about the nature of God accept the reality of God's infinity, omnipotence, omniscience and the impossibility of ever "knowing" Him through any of our senses then I don't see how such a person is "holding tight" to anything at all other than hope (dreaded Bible verse warning: ..."hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us."---Romans 5:5).

I know, we were all hoping this convo could proceed without the "dreaded Bible verse reference", but I just felt "led" to insert that.

[Ampage]

LMAO!
Difference is I agree with what Chris is saying, so no, what she speaks is not a deadhorse to me. But your constant arguing over pretty much everything ever brought up is. See what I mean Norma Jean?

[pissin2]

Nope don't see what you mean. Whether you agree with what she says plays no part in whether or not she's beating a deadhorse. We both keep talking about the same thing. Therefore beating the deadhorse.
I also didn't realize I was arguing about it.

[Ampage]

Not so much argue, but shall I say disagree with pretty much everything ever brought up here. There that’s better Heather.

[RocDoc]

Aggressively insultingly universally antagonistic until someone betters me and then, pshaw, I'm just kiddin'? Well then Hi, meet pissin'....

Getting conveniently earnest aincha, pissin'?

[Ampage]

I do believe I have started something. ;DCatch the wave people.

[pissin2]

It's a shame, I would have really liked to hear your thoughts on god, RocDoc & Ampage. But we can talk about something else now if you want.